Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

USAir Taking Air Tahoma Jumpseaters

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Tahomos

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Posts
89
A guy named Chris in Air Tahoma flight following told me that their pilots are required to jumpseat on USAir and USAir Express when traveling for the company. If a guy is based in Cleveland and has to fly for them out of Columbus or Memphis, he is supposed to jumpseat on USAir and tell them he's just commuting when actually their airline is too cheap to buy them tickets. Is it right for them to do this and have to lie for the company? Is this typical?
 
Poor B-----ds. As long as USAir pilots aren't aware the Air Tahoma management is doing this...they will keep getting away with it.
 
I used to work for a company that did this same thing. The way I always approached it was to walk into the cockpit and say, "Hey captain, my company wants me to try to get your jumpseat so they can reposition me to XYZ. Any chance I can ride with you guys?" 9 times out of 10 the answer was no. It was actually a pretty good scam for us until the company caught on and worked out an agreement with UPS to reposition our crews.


I always figured that honesty was the best policy, and if I could manage to weasel myself into a night off due to a missed jumpseat..... even better!
 
They are supposedly "thoroughly briefed" by the owner of the company during ground school on how to travel for the company via USAir. They also do not get paid for the time it takes them to travel from their domicile to where the company wants them to work that week.
 
Word on the street is that Air Homo lost its agreements with most, if not all carriers.

Its an absolute shame. The only losers in a case like that are guys who can no longer get home during the weekends.

BTW, get out of there as soon as you can. There is nothing good about that place.
 
Last edited:
No kidding. Word to the wise...don't work for Air Tahoma! Women pilots are safe from this though because Air Tahoma hasn't hired a woman pilot in YEARS (with the exception of the owners daughter about 7 years ago)!
 
OPECJet said:
.

Its an absolute shame. The only losers in a case like that are guys who can no longer get home during the weekends.
I suppose my only observation is to wonder why these pilots should suffer because of bad Mgmt.

Do unto others?

I am in the dark as to history of situation.
 
Reciprocal jumpseat agreements are a professional courtesy, and provided to help out fellow pilots. They are not there so a company can try to beat the system and save airfare when moving crews.

We all know that the guys who do it have the choice of trying to j/s for company business, or get fired. Hell of a spot to be in, and the ones who suffer are the guys who lose the privilege because they work for a cheap company.
 
Spread the Word

It looks like they're still at it. Sounds like Tahoma threatens to fire their pilots if they spill the beans. USAir guys could help by spreading the word. That's probably the only thing that would help the poor B@$t@rd$.
 
I had the opportunity of working for this company about eight years ago (back then it was called Cool Air). I would have to say that my experience was not a very enjoyable one. I was treated with little respect and considered expendable and easily replacable. Working conditions were very poor and the hours were terrible. I left the company feeling like I had wasted a bunch of my time but everything worked out in the end because of a contact person from AT that helped me get another job. I was also asked to jumpseat like the above person. Years later when I became a captain I had the opportunity to return the favor to another victim of this company by allowing him on my jumpseat and later helped him get another job. I in no way condone or approve the behavior of Air Tahoma by making their pilots jump seat on false premises, but I also know that most of the pilots there are entry level guys just trying to build some time working under some very stressful and unpleasent conditions at times. This is where Captain discretion should come into play. I let guys like this on (as long as they're not arrogant or a jerk) because they will probably get fired if they miss a few show times and they are probably only a few months away from building enough time to get a better job. So, it's up to you, but I can tell you without a doubt that you will not change the behavior of Air Tahoma management and you will hurt some fellow struggling pilots.

fly safe :)
 
Farscape said:
I had the opportunity of working for this company about eight years ago (back then it was called Cool Air). I would have to say that my experience was not a very enjoyable one. I was treated with little respect and considered expendable and easily replacable. Working conditions were very poor and the hours were terrible. I left the company feeling like I had wasted a bunch of my time but everything worked out in the end because of a contact person from AT that helped me get another job. I was also asked to jumpseat like the above person. Years later when I became a captain I had the opportunity to return the favor to another victim of this company by allowing him on my jumpseat and later helped him get another job. I in no way condone or approve the behavior of Air Tahoma by making their pilots jump seat on false premises, but I also know that most of the pilots there are entry level guys just trying to build some time working under some very stressful and unpleasent conditions at times. This is where Captain discretion should come into play. I let guys like this on (as long as they're not arrogant or a jerk) because they will probably get fired if they miss a few show times and they are probably only a few months away from building enough time to get a better job. So, it's up to you, but I can tell you without a doubt that you will not change the behavior of Air Tahoma management and you will hurt some fellow struggling pilots.

fly safe :)

Very Nice Post! Good Points.......noted
 
Farscape said:
I had the opportunity of working for this company about eight years ago (back then it was called Cool Air). I would have to say that my experience was not a very enjoyable one. I was treated with little respect and considered expendable and easily replacable. Working conditions were very poor and the hours were terrible. I left the company feeling like I had wasted a bunch of my time but everything worked out in the end because of a contact person from AT that helped me get another job. I was also asked to jumpseat like the above person. Years later when I became a captain I had the opportunity to return the favor to another victim of this company by allowing him on my jumpseat and later helped him get another job. I in no way condone or approve the behavior of Air Tahoma by making their pilots jump seat on false premises, but I also know that most of the pilots there are entry level guys just trying to build some time working under some very stressful and unpleasent conditions at times. This is where Captain discretion should come into play. I let guys like this on (as long as they're not arrogant or a jerk) because they will probably get fired if they miss a few show times and they are probably only a few months away from building enough time to get a better job. So, it's up to you, but I can tell you without a doubt that you will not change the behavior of Air Tahoma management and you will hurt some fellow struggling pilots.

fly safe :)
Good points, but that still is NOT the purpose of the jumpseat. This company needs to lose their jumpseat agrement with all airlines. If people have enough time to get a job with Air Tahoma, they should have enough time to get a job with any regional -- not sure what their hours our, but it can't be less the Continental Expresses 600/100. If they don't have the time to get on with another regional, then flight instruct, fly skydivers, banner tow, do something, but don't bring down the profession and the courtesy of the jumpseat which so many of us have worked hard and sacrificed to get. And yes, sacraficed, the company uses the jumpseat as a bargaining tool when negotiations come up, and to be able to take unlimited jumpseaters we have to give something up.
 
Although no one wants to be a mean guy and deny a jumpseat, the unfortunate situation is that Air Tahoma management probably won't change their practices until they start getting consistent delays because of their pilots being consistently denied the jumpseat. What they're doing is wrong, and by looking the other way and allowing it to continue happening, you're not doing anybody any favors in the long run.
 
So, again, the question is how does the word get out so that these poor SOBs don't have to keep jumpseating "on their own time" when the company is re-positioning them out of their domicile? They don't get paid for this time and when they are left over a weekend out of town, they are not paid and not allowed to leave.
 
It's tempting to take a hard-line stance on this issue, demanding that company management's true intentions be exposed to US Air. I would personally advocate an approach of "live and let live".

My reason for this are rooted in my own history. In 1998 I flew Caravans for an operator that used it's recipricol agreement with a certain 121 major, to re-position floater crews without having to spend money on a ticket. Very wrong, but the thing to remember is this: Without those privileges, pilots are going to be stuck on the road away from their families for weeks or months at a time. So, the question that begs answering is: how do you alert the US Air JS Coordinator that this is occuring, without the crew force at Air Tahoma being the ones punished for the fact that their employer is abusing the system?

I will never forget the courtesy and respect shown to me by those individuals that allowed a tired, stinky, freight dog to ride home and see my newborn kids.

Tahomos: What's with the axe to grind? No offense dude, but you sound like you got your panties in a wad over this operator, and are unable to move on with your life. Are they unsafe? March on down to the FSDO and take care of it. Flinging poo on an anonymous internet board just shows a complete and total lack of class or integrity on your part. Young man, I could tell you tales that would stand your hair on end, but you don't see me whining here about how "Old so-an-so is doing this and that, what do you guys think?" Grow up.
 
No Axe to grind, I just have had a couple friends working there who had to put up with some pretty miserable things. Sure, it's a great opportunity to get some flight experience and there are always dues to pay, but consider the following:

One guy was a captain on their turbine Convair. Part-121 carrier giving good time, but he had a newborn and with his wage his family qualified for welfare-healthcare. He had to stay over weekends out of town, but not paid for this time. No compensation for being away from domicile on a 60-hour lay-over...no per diem...no transportion to and from the crew "apartment. Then he would have to ferry planes gratis (not a revenue trip, so they don't have to pay). Add to that he had to jumpseat wherever they wanted to without pay and was actually trained during groundschool as to how to lie to USAir crews.

So...all I'm saying is that dues do have to be paid, but this is a flagrant abuse of jumpseat privileges. If you really do think I'm just "grinding an axe", then you just need to get over yourself and try and remember the little guys.
 
Here's some un-solicited advice:

If you want to help your friend out, stop trying to portray his employer in a negative light. I agree it's jumpseat abuse. Read my post, I really do know what your friend is going through. You are naive however, if you think your posts are going to cause his employer to change the way they do business. What your posts may do, is get noticed by the USAir JS Coordinator, resulting in a loss of privileges for your friend and his peers.

I applaud your desire to help your friend out, there are are more productive methods and venues to do so than the possibly damaging (To Tahoma pilots) one you have chosen.
 
Last edited:
LJDRVR said:
Here's some un-solicited advice:

You are niave however, if you think your posts are going to cause his employer to change the way they do business. What your posts may do, is get noticed by the USAir JS CoordinatorQUOTE]

Thanks?!?! for the un-solicited "advice". It has been noticed by USAir thanks partly to these posts and it WILL help them out because now their employer will probably purchase them tickets for company business like they should have been doing all along. It's one small step.

p.s. as for your "advice", it was un-solicited and when I want "advice" from a 4700 hour regional FO, you will be first on my list.

p.s.s. Here's some advice for you...maybe spend less time giving un-solicited "advice" on airline chat rooms and take some of that energy to work towards an:
1) Upgrade
2) Job with a Major
 
LJDRVR said:
Flinging poo on an anonymous internet board just shows a complete and total lack of class or integrity on your part.
One last piece of advice from my first post. You have a nice day.
 
Your anonymous "grow up" comment that started this whole thing wasn't cool. If that's not "throwing poo"?....Funny how we are what we criticize sometimes huh?

still love ya....

xo...T-Holmes
 
Last edited:
Tahomos, like I said in my post on page 1, I am 99% sure that anything you do will not change the rotton behavior of Air Tahoma. I know them, and they will find an alternate way around any restrictions your actions cause. You're dealing with a pathological mindset that will break or twist any rule possible to make a few dollars. I'm not telling you not to do anything though, in fact I welcome you to try, maybe something good will come of it. LJDVR shares my sensabilities though about the likely people hurt by pursueing this to its logical end, Air Tahoma pilots and their families. I say focus your energies on helping your friends get new jobs, which I'm sure you are. Take care and good luck to you and your friends.
 
I appreciate your level-headedness. Hopefully, if anything, some good may come out of this. Who knows.

Until then....GO BUCKEYES!!!
 
I and at least one other was fired for not jumpseating for business purposes. The silver lining is it did not really matter when it came to my new job! To all you people that are hauling them still think about this... The company is cheap, and this why the want to j/s for business. Okay this might be bad, but it gets a lot worse. ATI just lost a 580 a few months ago. Lost with that 580 was the fist officer. It looks like maintence had a vital roll in the loss of that plane. Bad companies do kill pilots. You letting them j/s is just letting them get away with being a little cheaper, and continuing that behavior. The only good result for a company like that is going out of business. Maybe if you wouldn't have let that f/o on your plane he wouldn't have been there to take that flight and just maybe he would still be with his wife and kids. If somebody would give me the name of the J/S coordinator I would be glad to call him and tell him the situation with ATI. So I say to you Us Air guys do the ATI guys a favor and tell them NO! Just maybe you will save there lives!
 
A busines that uses j/s privildges to cut cost is a failed business model. Justifying it becuase of the pilots themsleves isn't valid. Wrong is wrong. This isn't the only employeer out there.

I've contacted the ALPA National Jumpseat committee...
 
Tahomos said:
LJDRVR said:
p.s. as for your "advice", it was un-solicited and when I want "advice" from a 4700 hour regional FO, you will be first on my list.

p.s.s. Here's some advice for you...maybe spend less time giving un-solicited "advice" on airline chat rooms and take some of that energy to work towards an:
1) Upgrade
2) Job with a Major
First of all, there's no such thing as a p.s.s. it would still fall under the first "post script". You can't have more than one.

Secondly, I believe that's what he's doing is trying to upgrade and get a job with a major. So, your advice was already occurring.

Rez. Thank you for contacting ALPA national, I've let our JS coordinator know as well. If the company is that bad to work for, many airlines are hiring like crazy right now. No one is forcing any of the pilots to be there. If everyone quit on the same day, that would send a clear message to management.
 
I would deny Air Tahoma pilots the jumpseat simply based on the fact that you might be saving their lives! This outfits safety record is abysmal at best.

I found this regarding only one of the several accidents this company has chalked up:

Cargo plane wreckage yields few early clues
[font=arial,helvetica]Overnight crash on N.Ky. golf course kills co-pilot [/font]



By James Pilcher
Enquirer staff writer


[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]PHOTO GALLERY

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Photos from the scene [/font][font=verdana,arial,helvetica]CRASH LOCATION [/font][font=verdana,arial,helvetica] Click for larger map [/font]FLORENCE - Investigators pored over the wreckage of Air Tahoma Flight 185 Friday, trying to piece together why the decades-old aircraft crashed within sight of Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, killing the co-pilot and scattering the plane's cargo across a Florence golf course.

The pilot of the twin-engine Convair 580 is expected to be interviewed this weekend by the National Transportation Safety Board. Neither crew member has been identified.

Flight 185 was on a routine flight from Memphis with a cargo of parcels for DHL and was making its final landing approach shortly before 1 a.m. when the pilot reported engine trouble, officials said.

The aircraft was less than five miles from the airport. The pilot radioed that he thought he could make a safe landing, officials said.

But only a little more than 30 seconds and just over a mile from Runway 36R, the plane clipped a grove of pines at the World of Sports golf course, plowing into a tree across the sixth fairway and breaking into pieces. Its cargo of computer joysticks, audio equipment, documents and acrid-smelling fuel were strewn through the wooded area. It was 12:50 a.m.

The pilot walked away from the crash. Rescuers found him sitting on a bench on the fairway, talking by phone with a company dispatcher and bleeding from his injuries. He was taken to St. Luke Hospital West.

The pilot later was transferred to University Hospital. NTSB member Carol Carmody would not reveal details, but said he is "OK." Both the pilot and co-pilot are believed to be from the Memphis area.

The co-pilot's body was found buried in the gnarled wreckage of the tail section and was removed around noon.

Now, NTSB investigators must go to work trying to piece together the events that over a span of just a few minutes turned a routine flight on a cool, clear night into the first fatal aircraft accident at the busy Cincinnati airport in 21 years.

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]FATAL CRASHES [/font][font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Other fatal crashes at CVG airport

Nov. 8, 1965: Fifty-eight people die, four survive when an American Airlines Boeing 727 crashes during landing.

Nov. 20, 1967: A TWA Convair 880 crashes just after take-off. Seventy of the 85 people on board die in the worst air disaster in Greater Cincinnati history. June 2, 1983: An Air Canada Douglas DC-9 makes an emergency landing after the jet's lavatory caught fire on a flight from Dallas to Toronto. The crew was able to land the plane though it had no working instruments or radio. But once the plane's exits were opened, the outside oxygen caused an explosion. Twenty-three of the 46 people aboard were killed, mostly by toxic smoke from the plane's burning insulation.

[/font]"We are not going to speculate on any possibilities," the NTSB's Carmody said Friday afternoon at the golf course, several hours after a nine-member investigation team arrived from Washington.

[size=+1]50-year-old model

Air Tahoma, a small cargo and charter carrier based in Columbus, owned and operated the plane under contract to DHL. Investigators said Air Tahoma acquired the plane July 19 from another company that has not yet been identified. That transfer hasn't been recorded in the federal database, making it difficult for the NTSB to track the plane's maintenance history.

The Convair 580 model first entered service in 1954. Carmody said investigators believe the crashed plane was built in the early 1960s. Air Tahoma owns 13 planes, including at least six Convair 580s.

For seven years, the company has hauled freight from Memphis, Pittsburgh and Cleveland to be processed through DHL's hub here.

Records show the Federal Aviation Administration has cited Air Tahoma three times in the past four years for maintenance problems. The airline settled one case that began 2000 with a $5,000 fine. Appeals on the others are pending.

Its planes also have been involved in two accidents since 1996, including one in October 2003 when a plane's engine caught fire. Another Air Tahoma turboprop lost all oil pressure in one engine while trying to land in Memphis on Jan. 7, but landed safely with one engine.

Air Tahoma officials released a statement saying the company was "deeply saddened by the loss of a valued member of our company, but we are able to take some relief in the fact that another has survived this tragic event."

DHL officials said only that the company contracts with 10 to 15 companies such as Air Tahoma. A DHL spokesman praised Air Tahoma for "an excellent safety and operational record" over the past seven years.

DHL's hub handles more than 250,000 packages a night, and transfers freight from at least 50 flights between 11 p.m. and 5 a.m.

At the crash site, DHL workers carted off pickup trucks full of cargo to try to salvage some shipments.

[size=+1]Results likely next week

[/size]The NTSB on-site investigation is expected to take at least three to four days. Both the flight data and cockpit voice recorders were recovered and sent to Washington to be analyzed. Carmody said results could be available as soon as Monday.

She said the investigation would include representatives from the FAA and local air traffic controllers and Indianapolis-based Allison Engines, a formerly independent company that's now a subsidiary of Rolls Royce, which made the aircraft's engines, plus the Transportation Safety Board of Canada.

Kelowna Flightcraft of Kelowna is a British Columbia company that specializes in Convair prop planes and oversees engineering issues for the aircraft. Kelowna president Barry Lapointe said he believes he will be asked to be part of the investigation.

[size=+1]'A wonder it didn't ignite'

[/size]Local emergency rescue personnel were on the scene shortly after Flight 185 went down. Boone County Coroner Doug Stith, who was notified of the crash at 1:38 a.m., said the co-pilot was pronounced dead at the scene.

"There was an enormous amount of jet fuel smell,'' Stith said. "It's a wonder it didn't ignite. The fact that it didn't catch fire is probably what saved the pilot's life."

The night stocking-crew working in the Kohl's department store on Houston Road near the crash site heard the plane come down. "It was so close they could smell (the spilled fuel) inside the building," said cashier Phyllis Yates of Florence. The store is less than a quarter-mile from the crash site.

Throughout the day Friday, golfers were turned away from the 65-acre, par 3 World of Sports course.

Norman Peacock, of Birmingham, Ala., arrived at 3 p.m. with clubs in the back of his VW Jetta.

He found a note that said the course wouldn't be open until at least Monday. "I heard that there was an airplane that crashed on the golf course. I just didn't realize it was this one," Peacock said.

[/size][/font]
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom