Upt/supt

[Erk183]

Hey can anyone clear up for me what the difference is between UPT and SUPT, and what the differences are as far as getting into them? THanks

 

[talondriver]

SUPT is what the USAF is doing now (unfortunately).
Students start with the T-37 for basic flight training. Then they split off into four different "tracks" depending on desires and class ranking.
-Ft Rucker, AL for helicopter training
-T-38s for fighter/bombers at their SUPT base
-T-1s (beechjet) for tanker/transports at their SUPT base
-T-44s (king air) to NAS Corpus Christi, TX for C-130 lead-in
In UPT, everyone went through T-37s and T-38s regardless of what MWS you were going to.
UPT doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Cheesehead]

Old School

There is no difference at all. UPT is the old school term for the now correct SUPT acronym. However, old guys like myself probably still refer to it as UPT - that's why you see and hear both UPT and SUPT. All the AF pilots who trained prior to the T-1 coming on-line attended UPT when everyone flew the T-37 and then the T-38. Would-be heavy pilots and would-be fighter pilots were trained using the exact same syllabus throughout the entire program. When the T-1 showed up (1993-94 time frame), UPT became Specialized UPT or SUPT. Everyone flies the T-37, then track selects to either the T-1, or T-38 where they "specialize" in becoming a heavy driver or start the de-programming and re-programming process of becoming a fighter guy/gal. Columbus, Laughlin, and Vance are the SUPT bases. Sheppard is the home of ENJJPT (Euro-Nato Joint Jet Pilot Training) and I don't think that program changed much when the other bases started flying the mighty Jayhawk. Probably more info than you wanted, but hopefully it clears things up a little.

 

[talondriver]

Re: Old School

There is no difference at all.

Oh...there's a difference.

 

[Toro]

There is a difference between S/UPT

Cheesehead, there's a difference and you even explain the principle difference in your post. Not only is there the obvious difference in the airframe and the syllabus, it's a difference in mentality. The reason SUPT came about is that the AF felt UPT - with guys only flying the T-38 - did a great job in getting students into a fighter mentality and learning to fly good formation. But the training didn't prepare them for what they would encounter in the heavy world in terms of CRM. There was more of a single-seat mentality engrained in students while going through T-38s, which had to be undone once they got to the heavies.

The T-38s continue to emphasize the single seat mentality while the T-1s emphasize crew coordination and the pilot/co-pilot roles. In the T-38, you are taught to act like a wingman, think for yourself and speak only when spoken to. In the T-1, you are part of a crew and decisions/actions are always made together. Do I personally think an entire new airframe needed to be introduced to solve this problem? No, but I've never flown heavies, so I don't exactly have a lot of room to say.

Another difference is that UPT graduates who went on to fly heavies still had the opportunity to return as T-38 instructors and crossflow to fighters if the opportunity arose because they had been through 38s as a student. With SUPT, this is no longer an option.

 

[Cheesehead]

Wrong Impression

It sounded like Erk 183 was confused and thought there are two different programs out there for pilot training. I was a tweet IP for almost 4 years and I'm very aware of everything that was spelled out for me. All I was trying to say to Erk was disregard the UPT acronym because now, it's SUPT. I guess I should have said UPT doesn't exist anymore, so just worry about SUPT. Tough crowd.

 

[Spur]

Re: There is a difference between S/UPT

The reason SUPT came about is that the AF felt UPT - with guys only flying the T-38 - did a great job in getting students into a fighter mentality and learning to fly good formation. But the training didn't prepare them for what they would encounter in the heavy world in terms of CRM. There was more of a single-seat mentality engrained in students while going through T-38s, which had to be undone once they got to the heavies.

Bzzzt... wrong answer.

The REAL reason for the T-1 was the T-38s life expectancy was too short with the number of pilots it was required to train. In order to keep the AF from having to buy an expensive advanced trainer replacement, the evil SUPT scheme was concocted.

Think about it... The AF decides a two seat A/C cant teach CRM, so they go out and get another two seat A/C? Yes there is a difference in how T-38 CRM might be taught vs T-1 CRM, but its still CRM. Also, I imagine there is some crew coordination going on in the F-15E, and the Bone as well.

The transition to SUPT was an error IMHO... there are many more drawbacks than most people realize...

BTW--- Vance has JSUPT. (Joint SUPT)

 

[Erk183]

another one

ok so my next question is ... what is Joint SUPT (JSUPT)?

 

[Toro]

ok so my next question is ... what is Joint SUPT (JSUPT)?

Joint refers to the combination of Navy and Air Force instructors for pilot training. Absolutely no difference in the syllabus, just the fact that there are Navy guys there.

 

[MercuryPilot]

More on JSUPT

Vance is also Joint because of the Navy students in both T-37s and T-1s. The T-37 Navy students select a Navy pipeline just like their T-34 buddies. The T-1 Navy folks are headed to the E-6B and have already completed T-34s.

Also, T-1 JSUPT used to be at Reese.