UPT and log PIC time?

[Vicman]

If someone went through UPT with the ASEL/AMEL/FAA rating, would they log the time accrued at schoolhouse as PIC?

I would think that by FAA regs yes! But again this is the Military and nothing made sense while I was in. (I've seen it stated that IP's made a big deal about the bonafide Army aviators wearing their wings while at the schoolhouse! T/F)

Just curios, this came about while BSing with the IFT guys. Thanks

 

[OPIE01]

Most Majors will not let you count it

If someone went through UPT with the ASEL/AMEL/FAA rating, would they log the time accrued at schoolhouse as PIC?

Most Majors have you exclude UPT PIC time.

Since T-37s and T-38s are Jets, if would require you to have a type rating in them before you can log PIC with an instructor. I have seen some guys log thier Solo time as PIC.

Since you are talking about such a small amount of flight time, I advise people to only log it as part of Total Time and Dual. This way you will never have anyone question you about it. Why start a fuss over something so little.

I've seen it stated that IP's made a big deal about the bonafide Army aviators wearing their wings while at the schoolhouse! T/F

Sometimes true. It all depended on the Army Aviator. There were 3 of us ex-Warrant Officers in my UPT class. Me with 1200 Helo hours, one guy was a guard Helo guy with 500 hours, and a guy with 1500 helo hours.
The guy with 1500 hours took a lot of crap because he had the attitude that he already new it all and UPT was just a formality. He almost didn't make it through.

At UPT we have seen guys with 4000 Civilian flight hours almost wash out for the same reason.

99% of the time at UPT whether you are Ex-Helo or a civilian with a bunch of hours, as long as you realize you are there to learn the AF way and don't think it is a bunch of BS, no one will bat an Eye. They will probably even respect you more for your previous experience as long as you don't act like a jerk.

The Cream rises to the Top and usually someone with previous experiance (Army helo or lots of civilian flight time) will normally do real well as long as they have a good attitude.

 

[Vicman]

Thanks Opei01, for the response..very insightful.

 

[JimNtexas]

99% of the time at UPT whether you are Ex-Helo or a civilian with a bunch of hours, as long as you realize you are there to learn the AF way and don't think it is a bunch of BS, no one will bat an Eye. They will probably even respect you more for your previous experience as long as you don't act like a jerk.

Although I was a mere navigator, I had an experience that confirmed what Opie wrote. I had right at 1000 hours as an F-4 Wild Weasel EWO when I was selected for the EF-111.

I showed up at the F-111 schoolhouse with an attitude that I'd seen everything and done everything, and that the school was mere formality to someone of my incredible skill. After all, I had never busted a check or even had to repeat a training sortie. I could not have been more wrong.

Right seat in the F-111 was nothing like the pit of the F-4. The jobs were so different that I was barely ahead of the new UNT and UPT grads in the class,butI didn't realize it until almost too late.

About midway through the course I got totally lost about half way through a two hour low level. We had to climb out and get a Tacan/DME cut to figure our where we were. For the first and last time in my military career, I had to repeat a training ride and was highlighted as a problem child.

That ride was like a slap in face with a cold fish, but I'm forever the better for it. I buckled down and finished the F-111 course a perfect checkride.

I now realize what the Zen Masters mean when they say that you much approach learning with a "beginner's mind".

In flying nothing is more valuable than prior experience, but your prior experience can only help you if you approach every new training situation with the attitude that you have no experience at all.

 

[Vicman]

"Approach learning wiht an open mind"

I think test pilots are (trained) the same way..no matter how much more experienced/skilled they are at the task, they'll listen to what you (any pilot/ any certificate level) have to say about the airplane. Now that's impressive!

 

[Mud Eagle]

Re: Most Majors will not let you count it

Since T-37s and T-38s are Jets, if would require you to have a type rating in them before you can log PIC with an instructor.

That's only true if there's an FAA certified civilian counterpart. Since they are both military aircraft with no civilian certification, there's no such thing as a T-38 type rating.

Not arguing that when applying for the Majors, UPT time doesn't count for much, but....

I was interested in this when I was a UPT student, so I asked a number of FAA DEs. The answer that they came up with was that, following your solo, you're considered "qualified" in the airplane. Thus, on solo flights, you could log PIC time.

 

[Vandal]

hehe who the hell else could be PIC when you are solo?! Of course you log that as PIC time...not sure about when the IP is in with you though, like how you could log pic after you had your private license, etc.