Upgrades at NetJets

[Grizz]

Applicants at NetJets are being told to expect to upgrade at the 2 1/2 year point. Here's the real story.

The results of the 400XP Captain bid that just came out this morning are:
Most senior was a guy in the mid 500s in seniority (Hired in Jan 2000).
Most junior was a guy in the mid 1100s (Hired Sept 2001).
All 4 were PICs in other aircraft - a Falcon 2000, Hawker 800, Hawker 1000 and an Ultra.

I've been here 2 1/2 years and the most junior successful bidder was 500 numbers senior than I. New hires right now are 400 numbers junior to me. There is no way in hell that anyone hired today will ever upgrade in 2 1/2 years.

If you are thinking about applying at NetJets, you need to factor in the thought of a solid 5-6 years on first officer wages into your plans. You can't say you weren't warned.

 

[Cpt Splash]

Maybe managment is taking into account a mass exodus.

 

[gunfyter]

There will be upgrades into the 50 Adam Aircraft VLJ jets that we are getting.

 

[staledog]

There will be upgrades into the 50 Adam Aircraft VLJ jets that we are getting.

are you guys seriously getting some of those or is this a joke?

just curious.

 

[dukeofdub]

Nevermind

 

[IP076]

Grizz,

With all of your detailed posts, I tend to believe your predictions about upgrades.

A friend of mine was talking to a crew in HPN the other day, and she said these guys said upgrades were less than 2 years! Now, are these guys just out of loop? on Crack? or could it have been some of the training/hiring department?

I'm interested in NetJets cause I would be allowed to live somewhere I want without having to commute, its not too bad of a schedule, and the pay, while not good, is still equal to the regionals for a few years.

Now that the ink is almost dry on my ATP certificate, I'll probably send in a resume.

Another question? I haven't jumped in to 91-K yet (No reason to at my current job), are there annual flight time limits?

I've got an application in to the FAA to be a DPE and just wondering if this is a feasible side job while working at NetJets. Also, I'm currently a TCE at a 142 training center (same as a DPE in 61) and have though maybe I could do that part time and earn a few extra bucks.

Just tossing around ideas, thanks for your input.

 

[MalteseX]

NJA upgrade time

Grizz,

With all of your detailed posts, I tend to believe your predictions about upgrades.

A friend of mine was talking to a crew in HPN the other day, and she said these guys said upgrades were less than 2 years! Now, are these guys just out of loop? on Crack? or could it have been some of the training/hiring department?

I'm interested in NetJets cause I would be allowed to live somewhere I want without having to commute, its not too bad of a schedule, and the pay, while not good, is still equal to the regionals for a few years.

Now that the ink is almost dry on my ATP certificate, I'll probably send in a resume.

Another question? I haven't jumped in to 91-K yet (No reason to at my current job), are there annual flight time limits?

I've got an application in to the FAA to be a DPE and just wondering if this is a feasible side job while working at NetJets. Also, I'm currently a TCE at a 142 training center (same as a DPE in 61) and have though maybe I could do that part time and earn a few extra bucks.

Just tossing around ideas, thanks for your input.

Griz' estimate is pretty accurate. The guys that heard someone talking from someone at HPN may not have done the math. I don't think these guys are on drugs or anything like that. Many guys are speaking on past history with no ill intentions. A year or so ago it may have been true, but there is no way considering the numbers of people that are hired and who bids the Captains positions. Many times, if a guy doesn't have to worry about upgrade, he doesn't keep up with the current trend.
There may be another issue that clouds the so-called upgrade time. It is what is known as captain's bypass pay. Without going into a lot of detail, its basically FOs who are getting capt's pay because someone junior to them received capts position in his aircraft--everyone with a line number senior will now get Capt's pay. The most recent one caused FOs that were here less than 2 years to get paid as a Capt, but they are still FOs.
The problem is YOU CANNOT COUNT on this happening in the future; you must plan on upgrading normally--and the numbers and planned future aircraft etc ALL POINT to greater than 4 years at FO pay--unless a mass exodus of Capts. happen.
Many people work side jobs. The only ones the company frowns on is working for competitors. Many guys work non flying jobs--heck I make just as much in my part time side job.

 

[Flex]

Last fall, after a TREMENDOUS effort by the pilot group that took around six months, two junior FOs upgraded on the hawker 400. Once that happened, around 200 FOs who were starving on FO pay, some for almost two years, began to receive captain's pay. Let me reiterate, that this was an unbelievable effort that took a lot of work and failed several times before finally working. It also occured right after the TA that really united the pilots in their feelings towards the prolonged negotiations (read: disgusted). I would be very surprised if that happened again. Several DOZEN pilots agreed to bypass that bid to allow those two to get it, and now they are waiting, and hungry to upgrade. Althought the union is supporting "operation unity" to replay this 400 bid again, there are several obstacles: 1. the two dozen guys who held their bids in the fall. 2. There is no guarantee there will be another 400 bid before summer. 3. summer is only three months away. 4. Even if a bid did come out, and a junior FO got it, he would have to get through the lenghthy training process before being awarded captain's pay. The checkride in the airplane could be MONTHS away. I'm not trying to discourage the effort of operation unity, I actually am a strong supporter. I'm just trying to be realistic. I will not bid the 400. Anyone coming here to netjets needs to be realistic and expect to be FO pay for a good solid 4-5 years, as Griz predicts. Right now there are about 500+ FOs. Remember also, that just because there are 500 FOs, that doesn't mean that after 500 bidable captains slots come out, they will all upgrade. The problem for the junior pilot at NJA is that the senior captains jump from fleet to fleet. Most captain awards are filled with captains going from one fleet to another.

 

[netjetwife]

Flex, I agree with everything in your post except the number of FO/FOs that were awarded Capt's pay in that awesome show of unity. My husband helped make calls and was one of 116 (I've also seen 117 posted) that got the pay raise.
Naturally, because he is still an FO, he tracks the upgrades closely and shows me the numbers. Barring a mass exodus OR a huge hiring boom, they are going to take that long. Just another reason that ALL NJ pilots must be paid a PROFESSIONAL salary!

 

[psysicx]

Other then pay are most people happy at Netjets?

 

[Majik]

Other then pay are most people happy at Netjets?

I think so. We have some pilots that would prefer 121 type flying and don't like having to interact with the passengers but those seem like a small minority. It's a job. You can color me happy when we get pay, scope protection, expanded gateway program (something similar to NJI's), and 7/7 schedule for all that want it. I think most of the other pilots here feel the same way.

 

[Diesel]

AS214 is going to roll his eyes.

I am very content with my job here. The time off gives me ample oportunity to do other things.

Yes i'm very happy here.

 

[gordon24]

Griz,

How close did you come to upgrade on the ultra? Looks like it went in the 1600's.

 

[Diesel]

Who the F would upgrade in the ultra from any other plane. JESUS have you seen an ultra?

 

[Live4flyng]

The ultra fleet is becoming more like the 7 fleet everyday, Broken/Tired/Maintenance/Broken/9000+ hours.

You can expect to see more Hawker 1000 and Cit 7 pilots bidding captain in all other fleets as they are being phased out. That will slow upgrades down even further. Wait until they start selling Ultras, the upgrades will be even longer!

 

[netjetwife]

Other then pay are most people happy at Netjets?

My husband enjoys the job; he prefers the style of flying--variety, greater px interaction, longer time spent as a paired crew, etc.--to his experience at American Airlines, which was cut short by 9-11. He also likes being part of a team/union and the chance that gives him to work with other pilots to improve their situation.

 

[Grizz]

Griz,

How close did you come to upgrade on the ultra? Looks like it went in the 1600's.

Yeah,

I was pretty surprised it went that far down. Not that I would ever consider bidding it. If it doesn't have an APU, this old guy ain't going anywhere near it.

 

[psysicx]

Do you guys get to enjoy your destinations?

 

[netjetwife]

My husband tells me that's a rare treat.....sorry.