United - Route Strategy

[shon7]

What are your views on a route network that would be only International Flights. UAL already owns some of the most lucrative international routes. If they were to shift all domestic flying to a regional partner / low cost would that help UAL be more profitable?

Sometimes I get the feeling that some of these comanies are just too large to be managed effectively. Was talking to a UAL flight attendant the other day and she mentioned that Management does not even know what happens. They are only "nubmer crunching" behind the scenes. How many share the same view?

Finally, everytime a discussion comes up about the U.S. airline industry the key word seems to be "cost cutting." What is the reason the U.S. (majors) are not profitable. There has to be more to that than labor costs. Excess capacity is one factor. What are the others.

Comments appreciated.

 

[SSDD]

Mostly international..uhhhh...not a good idea. Pan Am was mostly international, then hijacking and terrorism reared its ugly head. They didn't have a domestic structure to fall back on, and the rest is history.

Then again, the way UA operates, I wouldn't put past them.

 

[General Lee]

Shon7,

How many extra furloughs would that create? Giving all of the domestic routes to Express carriers, and then only flying INTL? That would be another 4000 furloughs. Well, unless the Express carriers allow the United furloughs to come down ONTOP of them in senority. Sure, they might accept that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[crashpad]

Agreed, at the very least 4,000 on the street, but hopefully just temporarily. This strategy, combined with the new low cost structures of the regionals, has a very distinct possibility for returning UAL to profitability. Ual would most likely include domestic key routes with their with their mainline structure, but could maximize their cost efficiencey by taking profits from the regionals.

Given the recent maneuvers with the regionals, this may have been their plan all along. If it is, there would be more planes flying with more freguency, and one would hope ALPA would do everything in it's power to get the furloughees back in the cockpit.

Two cents worth

 

[General Lee]

Crashpad,

ALPA hasn't been able to do much yet with United. Look at the typical lines on the A320----92 hours a month with a max of 12 days off a month. That sucks. And you think ALPA will get those 4000 pilots back into cockpits after the regionals take over? Wrong. United Management will see the low cost nature of the regionals and keep everyone there. The days of higher pay will be gone. United domestic will be one big Mesa. United International will also be pressured to go low cost, and the only ones to benefit are the Management heads at UAL---with big bonuses.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skykid]

Shon7, interesting questions.

What are your views on a route network that would be only International Flights.

I don't think an international only airline will work either. Pan Am slowly sold off all of thier revenue about a decade ago, and the model of shrinking to profitability is a bad one. I think it would be dangerous to farm out all the feed for an international only airline.



What is the reason the U.S. (majors) are not profitable.

What is happening at the majors is not unique to airlines. Companies get out of shape and loose focus, and somebody else figures how to do it better. This happens in EVERY single private industry. People keep asking on this board "What is UAL's strategy going to be/When are they going to come up with a plan?" There isn't any magic formula or secret system out there. It is like people are waiting to hear some revelation like edible food trays or flux capacitors to save 90% on fuel. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the plan is to emerge from bankruptcy with the cost structure of a discount carrier and argueably still the best route structure around.


Sometimes I get the feeling that some of these comanies are just too large to be managed effectively. Was talking to a UAL flight attendant the other day and she mentioned that Management does not even know what happens. They are only "nubmer crunching" behind the scenes. How many share the same view?

I think there are lousy employees at almost every company who love to sit around and bash the boss. I hate to be jumpseating or flying and hear FAs complaining, but as much as I jumpseat I've heard it over and over, on every carrier from Airtran to Southwest. Having said that, I think you probably can get too big and loose focus that way. Problem is, we absolutley need big airlines that fly to other continents. I don't know how many total CRAF missions were flown in the past few months - United flew 215. To run a huge, complex organization you need great management, and not a single person who works for someone else can be sure they will have that in 5 years, or even 1 year.

 

[goflyme]

How do people figure United has the best route structure? They have lost their control of the west coast by Southwest eating them up. They are talking about leaving the D.C. market, and they are slowing losing grasp of Denver. It will only be a matter of time they loose control of Chicago with American and Southwest in the region. They wont plan on expanding the west coast with the alliance with USairways, and with the Star Alliance in fully force, do you really expect them to expand their international market? With Mesa wanting biger regional jets, and with the newly annouced partnership with united, the route structure will be regionals and that route structure that you think United has so well locked up, will be one of an assortment of regionals.

 

[stillaboo]

Ual would most likely include domestic key routes with their mainline structure, but could maximize their cost efficiencey by taking profits from the regionals.

UAL 'would'? UAL is already trying to do this. DAL has it even worse. CMR keeps growing, but who's routes do you think they're growing into? DAL's. Frontier is the only carrier I know of that uses it's regional feed (Mesa) to grow a route, and then replaces it with mainline and re-deploys the regional to grow a new one. Everyone else is doing the reverse and replaceing the mainline with a regional. This is not a good trend for ANYONE, even the guys who get the 'new' flying.

That's what a WO does. They fly the same routes for less $, and then give the profits to the parent. By separating flying into mainline and regional, ALPA screwed the pooch for the ego's of mainline pilots. Only now that the whipsaw is coming out is it apparent that all pilots must hang together or we will hang separately. Mainline needs to help regional pilots gain pay, but it's a hard sell when regionals keep cherry-picking their routes (not to mention making their furloughs jump through hoops to get on with them).

UAL furloughing 4000 pilots is a terrible idea for all pilots, even the ones who would get the routes (like me). UAL is in financial difficulties, but eliminating 4000 mainline pilots and gaining 6000 lower paid regional pilots isn't good for any pilot at any level.

-Boo!

 

[Freight Dog]

UAL furloughing 4000 pilots is a terrible idea for all pilots, even the ones who would get the routes (like me). UAL is in financial difficulties, but eliminating 4000 mainline pilots and gaining 6000 lower paid regional pilots isn't good for any pilot at any level.

-Boo!

I agree with you, however I can think of several people on this board who would vehemently disagree with this statement.

 

[skykid]

Agreed Freight Dog. When the dust settles next year UAL 737s and Airbuses will be moving seats for about 7 cents a mile. Replacing this operation completely with regionals is one of the ludicrous ideas only available here.

 

[stillaboo]

I agree with you, however I can think of several people on this board who would vehemently disagree with this statement.

It's hard as a young FO flying an RJ to 'see the forest for the trees' sometimes. One of the downfalls of an RJ is that the plane is so shiney it temporarily blinds the pilots of their objectivity, especially if they preflight with their 'Ray Ban Aviators' on.

-Boo!