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United Airlines 2Q

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Networ-King

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2003
Posts
625
UAL Guy/Gals,

I thought you guys were doing a bit better, with all the talks of getting out of bankrupcy early and all. Whats the story, anyone know?

United Airlines Parent Posts $623M Loss

By Dave Carpenter
AP Business Writer
Friday, August 1, 2003; 11:07 AM


CHICAGO –– United Airlines' parent company said Friday it lost $623 million in the second quarter – nearly double its loss of a year ago but its smallest deficit of the past year as it progresses through a bankruptcy overhaul.




The loss was the 12th straight for UAL Corp. and its second in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which it hopes to emerge from by early 2004. It came despite a $300 million reimbursement from the government – its share of a federal aid package covering airport security costs during the Iraq war.

Depressed international passenger travel because of the war and SARS, coupled with tough competition from discount carriers, kept United deep in the red despite a new labor deal that cut costs by $543 million, or 30 percent, for the quarter.

The loss for the April-through-June quarter amounted to $6.26 per share, compared with a loss a year earlier of $341 million, or $6.08 per share.

The operating loss – excluding $300 million in government aid and $447 million in special items – was $476 million, or $4.79 a share. That was better than the $5.34-per-share estimate of Wall Street analysts surveyed by Thomson First Call.

Revenues were $3.11 billion, down 18 percent from $3.79 billion a year earlier in a reflection of the airline's 14 percent reduction in capacity.

"The second quarter began as a severe challenge for United and the industry as a whole, but we saw a particularly positive trend as we moved through the period," said CEO Glenn Tilton, citing a steady improvement in revenue and the labor and other cost savings.

"Despite the continued difficult economic environment, the improvement in both revenue and cost is encouraging," he said.

The Elk Grove Village, Ill.-based airline said it met its lenders' requirements for bankruptcy progress in June for a fifth straight month and expects to have met the standard for July.

For the first six months, the company lost a net $1.96 billion, or $20.22 per share, increasing its loss from $850 million, or $15.27 per share, in the first half of 2002. Revenues fell 11 percent to $6.29 billion from $7.08 billion.

UAL shares fell 3 cents to 48 cents in morning over-the-counter trading. The stock was delisted from the New York Stock Exchange in April, and shares are expected to be worthless when the company emerges from bankruptcy.
 
So they are losing more money year over year, after all the concessions? Granted Iraq and SARS but still...............

They just just cannot continue to bleed money like this. No way.
 
Boeingman said:
So they are losing more money year over year, after all the concessions? Granted Iraq and SARS but still...............

They just just cannot continue to bleed money like this. No way.


History says otherwise. TWA lost money every year for a decade. Don't ask me how.
 
I don't know how much TWA lost, but United lost, when you take out the 300 million the govt gave them, almost 1 BILLION dollars in a single quarter. No way a burn rate like that is sustainable.

I hate to think it, but how can they survive much longer? 1 BILLION dollars in a single quarter. Ouch.
 
I can only wonder just how long ANY airline can continue to lose money at that rate..Even in BK..

Sooner or later somebody has to say enough is enough and cut their losses..

And to be very honest..

The death of United may well be the thing the industry needs in the way of an adjustment to get back on track..

I know..I know..

All those folks out of work and all is not a very attractive picture..

But..A case can be made for the fact that there may well be the same number of people or less out of work if United did fail..

Due to the change in market share and less capacity in the system there may be less people out of work at the remaining carriers..

Just think what the remaining carriers could do with the various markets that would open if United were suddenly out of the picture..Recalls anyone?

While not an instant fix..Couldnt hurt the industry as a whole..

Just a thought..

Mike
 
IMHO...

I would have to agree with Mike on his views, both sides could be very easily argued though.

The big three are hurting pretty bad and if you removed one from the mix the other two plus a lot of other small carriers would have to pick up the slack (routes). United and American compete head-to-head in Chicago so American would definately benefit immediately and it would probably save them.

It is tough to swallow either way. I would really like to see United survive but management has to pull their head out sometime and get some fresh O2.:confused:
 
For what it is worth, if you go look at the numbers, you will find that United did have an operating profit of about 1 mill per day in June. However, there were many, many writeoffs that were thrown into the pot to make a huge loss. It looks like everything, including the kitchen sink was thrown in to the loss catagory. This is typically done for accounting reasons. I'm not defending it, just saying that is what is on paper.

CASM is supposedly 8.25 cents right now, best of the "network" airlines. The big question is what will the RASM be in third quarter? THAT is where the rubber hits the road as far as United's future is concerned.

Skirt
 
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Can you say ACA?

Im fairly certain the union would run the mainline into the ground if they tried an LLC spinoff..

Also..With ACA being weaned from the tit in their back yard with a whole fleet of RJs just ready to go they better not try it at IAD..

ACA may now have more to do with the possible death of United than any other carrier..

How quickly the landscape can change with an up and ready LLC already entrenched in IAD is going to be mind blowing..

The only question I have is who controls the gates?

If ACA controls their own gates, then United better be looking over their shoulder...

But even if United has a lock on the gates ..

I dont think they could hold off ACA in their present condition for very long..
The change in the political winds that seems to be happening every time United tells an airport commision they cant pay their bills is not in their favor..Just read the local Denver or Indianapolis papers and you will see what I mean..

But ...then again..You can get away with alot of things while operating under BK protection in order to protect your markets..

The next six months are going to be very interesting for both United and ACA with the up and coming holiday travel season..

It may well be Uniteds last if ACA can get their act together quickly..


Mike
 
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Wow..

Now I know its going to be very interesting during the up and coming holiday season around IAD..

Mike
 
Amazing how you recently coppied our frequent flyer program at ATA. Buy three, fly free! We started it 2 years ago.
Your incorrect about you CASM being the lowest ours is 6.1 (the lowest in the industry) and we are a major. Certainly SWAs is also lower than your 8.25.
 
MDP727 said:
Amazing how you recently coppied our frequent flyer program at ATA. Buy three, fly free! We started it 2 years ago.
Your incorrect about you CASM being the lowest ours is 6.1 (the lowest in the industry) and we are a major. Certainly SWAs is also lower than your 8.25.

I have corrected my post, I meant to say "network" majors, or whatever you want to call DL, AMR, AAA, NWA, CO, UAL (hub and spoke, legacy, whatever). You know, the "high cost operators" as opposed to the "low cost operators". I'm just commenting on the numbers, I do not intend to snub anyone.

Skirt
 
It was my understanding that in order to meet the covenants of their bankruptcy, they had to show a profit by October.

Not a chance in hell.

What was once the world's bes airline has been run into the ground, and the band plays on, just like on the Titanic.

If it were me, I would be looking for another job NOW.
 
Amazing how you recently coppied our frequent flyer program at ATA. Buy three, fly free! We started it 2 years ago.

I think United's new VP of Marketing was formerly ATA's marketing chief. Thought I read it in the paper a while back although I may have his new title wrong. This may explain the new FF program.
 
You bet Mr. John Teague was at ATA. Can't believe he's at UAL, Mr. T has run a couple out of buisness so far. Ahhh the executive level lifestyle, run a couple airlines into the ground, get a better paying job at another one! Fortunately our Pres stepped in before he had the chance.
 

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