Uh oh, obama administration coming to save us next

[stall022]

The title should read more like “Obama plans to bail out and line the pockets of his United Airlines buddies in Chicago”

 

[pdub20s]

This thread reeks of Right-wing boobery

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Or maybe he'll just butt out and let the free market dictate what happens...LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE.

Do you mean the "Free Market" that won't let employees strike or take work action to fight for better pay and work rules? A true "Free Market" has never existed for employees of the airline industry. Your "Free Market" has been the equivalent of stealing money from my pocket while holding a gun to my head to make sure I don't fight back. If you want a "Free Market" then let us Strike!

 

[Smarta$$]

Do you mean the "Free Market" that won't let employees strike or take work action to fight for better pay and work rules? A true "Free Market" has never existed for employees of the airline industry. Your "Free Market" has been the equivalent of stealing money from my pocket while holding a gun to my head to make sure I don't fight back. If you want a "Free Market" then let us Strike!

Exactly. They don't get that, because hanity never tells them about it.

 

[enuffalready]

Exactly. They don't get that, because hanity never tells them about it.

No free market.... I agree... but to our benefit! From an employee side.... if you get the sniffles, you can take 3 months off and not get fired...Your pay is entirely determined by when you got hired and not what you produce..... only places where that exists is college professors and union jokes like Chrysler and they only way those exist is to be completely dependent on subsidies.......try that in the normal work world and any employer would tell you get the F out and not let the door hit you on the way out...

always cracks me up when pilots say.... " yeah, lets go back to the 70's when we were regulated and.......... flying is not a right.... every person should pay $2500 for a ticket to san antonio"

the main reason pilots always take cuts and undercut each other is that if they had to earn a living in the real world and actually compete with a 25 yo kid from india... they would fold in a heartbeat...

we all knew what we signed up for when we showed up the first day of indoc

 

[Jar Jar]

From an employee side.... if you get the sniffles, you can take 3 months off and not get fired...

What airline do you work for?! Mine says I can only miss 1 day a month before they begin taking punitive action against me. 14 days in a year, and they start firing people.

Ever heard of the IMSAFE checklist? Check the AIM if you haven't. That's how the feds say we're supposed to do our job, but my company says otherwise. Sure I could go out on medical for maybe about two months (because i've got a couple years seniority, with unused sick time from not following the IMSAFE checklist), but that would mean making minimum pay without perdiem. Thats a stiff financial penalty if I decide to actually get really sick, not exactly the 'without-consequences' picture you are painting.

And what about the new hire? He can't call out sick. He's on probation for a year, so he'll just tough it out (fly with that head cold Joey, you'll be making the big bucks one day). It doesn't even matter what his illness is, it could even be an emotional issue that he's having, but he can't call out sick but maybe 3 times at the absolute most that year because he wants to retain his job. Do the citizens on his plane deserve a less healthy pilot?

the main reason pilots always take cuts and undercut each other is that if they had to earn a living in the real world and actually compete with a 25 yo kid from india... they would fold in a heartbeat...

If the public decides they would rather have 25 year olds from India flying them from SAN-MCO for $29 then that'd be it for us. Cabotage would decimate our careers, you are absolutely correct. I will say, that knowing what I know and seeing what I've seen on the line, I will NEVER trust my family to outsourced labor. The caliber of some people that we have flying today is already scary enough.

 

[crj567]

Ever heard of the IMSAFE checklist? Check the AIM if you haven't. That's how the feds say we're supposed to do our job, but my company says otherwise. Sure I could go out on medical for maybe about two months (because i've got a couple years seniority, with unused sick time from not following the IMSAFE checklist), but that would mean making minimum pay without perdiem. Thats a stiff financial penalty if I decide to actually get really sick, not exactly the 'without-consequences' picture you are painting.


If the public decides they would rather have 25 year olds from India flying them from SAN-MCO for $29 then that'd be it for us. Cabotage would decimate our careers, you are absolutely correct. I will say, that knowing what I know and seeing what I've seen on the line, I will NEVER trust my family to outsourced labor. The caliber of some people that we have flying today is already scary enough.

-As far as the sick time-check out this site:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/index.htm

-This is a federal law-they cannot discipline you for being sick... Just follow the guidelines, get the right paperwork filed, and you are set.

-The second point-about cabotage, is very valid, and is 100% correct. I will never, ever fly on any airplane with those clowns at the controls.

 

[enuffalready]

-As far as the sick time-check out this site:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/index.htm

-This is a federal law-they cannot discipline you for being sick... Just follow the guidelines, get the right paperwork filed, and you are set.

-The second point-about cabotage, is very valid, and is 100% correct. I will never, ever fly on any airplane with those clowns at the controls.

My point was that pilots only see free market as their ability to strike... unions are NOT free market...just as bombardier is not free market and is subsidozed by the canadian government.

As far as safety, I agree, and have said from the beginning that as money and QOL goes down, the pilots with options will leave and those most qualified will never come to airlines. Just like medical and other fields. The best already have their income diversified and when the time comes they walk away.... then you are left with either Genital Lees and/or spiky hair ipods that all complain about the good old days in the 70's with orgies on every overnight

 

[414Flyer]

the main reason pilots always take cuts and undercut each other is that if they had to earn a living in the real world and actually compete with a 25 yo kid from india... they would fold in a heartbeat...

we all knew what we signed up for when we showed up the first day of indoc

I wonder if I am the only one who thinks the rest of the world has more to fear from 25 year old American pilots willing to fly for free or pay to fly, than we have to fear from foreign pilots coming over here?

Pilots here in the US have been undercutting each other for years, we cant just pretend the threat to wages comes from pilots coming here from other countries.

 

[Jar Jar]

You're right 414 - i think some of the guys flying today don't belong up there. Its scary to think what could happen if you pair them up with an equally incompetent partner, and a bad situation.

The longer this 'race to the bottom' continues, the more incompetent pilots we'll have in our industry and the greater the odds of them being paired up together are. Most of the folks I work with are good at what they do, but there's certainly some that don't have a clue. Two of them together, and a bad situation - well that just gives me chills.

If Aero Khazakstan could come over here and operate with world-class aviators and somehow manage to compete, well that'd be a different story. But we all know how airlines work, and the only way a foreign owned airline would be able to push a domestic carrier out of a market would be if they were to offer their product cheaper. It just stands to reason that labor/schedules/training/maintenance would all be sacrificed in order to create that cheaper fare.