Uh oh, obama administration coming to save us next

[Jar Jar]

From an employee side.... if you get the sniffles, you can take 3 months off and not get fired...

What airline do you work for?! Mine says I can only miss 1 day a month before they begin taking punitive action against me. 14 days in a year, and they start firing people.

Ever heard of the IMSAFE checklist? Check the AIM if you haven't. That's how the feds say we're supposed to do our job, but my company says otherwise. Sure I could go out on medical for maybe about two months (because i've got a couple years seniority, with unused sick time from not following the IMSAFE checklist), but that would mean making minimum pay without perdiem. Thats a stiff financial penalty if I decide to actually get really sick, not exactly the 'without-consequences' picture you are painting.

And what about the new hire? He can't call out sick. He's on probation for a year, so he'll just tough it out (fly with that head cold Joey, you'll be making the big bucks one day). It doesn't even matter what his illness is, it could even be an emotional issue that he's having, but he can't call out sick but maybe 3 times at the absolute most that year because he wants to retain his job. Do the citizens on his plane deserve a less healthy pilot?

the main reason pilots always take cuts and undercut each other is that if they had to earn a living in the real world and actually compete with a 25 yo kid from india... they would fold in a heartbeat...

If the public decides they would rather have 25 year olds from India flying them from SAN-MCO for $29 then that'd be it for us. Cabotage would decimate our careers, you are absolutely correct. I will say, that knowing what I know and seeing what I've seen on the line, I will NEVER trust my family to outsourced labor. The caliber of some people that we have flying today is already scary enough.

 

[crj567]

Ever heard of the IMSAFE checklist? Check the AIM if you haven't. That's how the feds say we're supposed to do our job, but my company says otherwise. Sure I could go out on medical for maybe about two months (because i've got a couple years seniority, with unused sick time from not following the IMSAFE checklist), but that would mean making minimum pay without perdiem. Thats a stiff financial penalty if I decide to actually get really sick, not exactly the 'without-consequences' picture you are painting.


If the public decides they would rather have 25 year olds from India flying them from SAN-MCO for $29 then that'd be it for us. Cabotage would decimate our careers, you are absolutely correct. I will say, that knowing what I know and seeing what I've seen on the line, I will NEVER trust my family to outsourced labor. The caliber of some people that we have flying today is already scary enough.

-As far as the sick time-check out this site:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/index.htm

-This is a federal law-they cannot discipline you for being sick... Just follow the guidelines, get the right paperwork filed, and you are set.

-The second point-about cabotage, is very valid, and is 100% correct. I will never, ever fly on any airplane with those clowns at the controls.

 

[enuffalready]

-As far as the sick time-check out this site:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/index.htm

-This is a federal law-they cannot discipline you for being sick... Just follow the guidelines, get the right paperwork filed, and you are set.

-The second point-about cabotage, is very valid, and is 100% correct. I will never, ever fly on any airplane with those clowns at the controls.

My point was that pilots only see free market as their ability to strike... unions are NOT free market...just as bombardier is not free market and is subsidozed by the canadian government.

As far as safety, I agree, and have said from the beginning that as money and QOL goes down, the pilots with options will leave and those most qualified will never come to airlines. Just like medical and other fields. The best already have their income diversified and when the time comes they walk away.... then you are left with either Genital Lees and/or spiky hair ipods that all complain about the good old days in the 70's with orgies on every overnight

 

[414Flyer]

the main reason pilots always take cuts and undercut each other is that if they had to earn a living in the real world and actually compete with a 25 yo kid from india... they would fold in a heartbeat...

we all knew what we signed up for when we showed up the first day of indoc

I wonder if I am the only one who thinks the rest of the world has more to fear from 25 year old American pilots willing to fly for free or pay to fly, than we have to fear from foreign pilots coming over here?

Pilots here in the US have been undercutting each other for years, we cant just pretend the threat to wages comes from pilots coming here from other countries.

 

[Jar Jar]

You're right 414 - i think some of the guys flying today don't belong up there. Its scary to think what could happen if you pair them up with an equally incompetent partner, and a bad situation.

The longer this 'race to the bottom' continues, the more incompetent pilots we'll have in our industry and the greater the odds of them being paired up together are. Most of the folks I work with are good at what they do, but there's certainly some that don't have a clue. Two of them together, and a bad situation - well that just gives me chills.

If Aero Khazakstan could come over here and operate with world-class aviators and somehow manage to compete, well that'd be a different story. But we all know how airlines work, and the only way a foreign owned airline would be able to push a domestic carrier out of a market would be if they were to offer their product cheaper. It just stands to reason that labor/schedules/training/maintenance would all be sacrificed in order to create that cheaper fare.

 

[flyslow24]

I think it's foolish to chalk up saving "too big to fail banks" to saving an industry that allows 250 hour pilots fly in the airlines.

 

[airplane wizard]

That's great news, I would welcome full and complete re-regulation including pay rates set back to 1977 and adjusted for inflation. Who cares if it would cost $2500 for a round trip coast to coast ticket...that's what it SHOULD cost, and all the better if our load factors plummet to 60%....if we are turning a profit then it's all good. Cheap air travel is NOT a constitutional right and the only reason it is as cheap as it is is because you and I are currently subsidizing it with our wages and retirement. 60% load factors would be great for commuting as well! Bring it on!

Getting a huge salary to do jack sh*t is not a constitutional right either. Stores, resturants, etc, everyone should triple their prices so the employees don't have to work as hard, places are less crowded etc. After all they are subsidizing that plasma tv you just bought for $1000 instead of $5000. That is the american way of thinking...getting the very most for your money. Why should the airlines be any different?

 

[flyboyzii]

-As far as the sick time-check out this site:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/index.htm

-This is a federal law-they cannot discipline you for being sick... Just follow the guidelines, get the right paperwork filed, and you are set.

Until the next P.C. check where they fail you, then 'determine' that you are "untrainable" & let you go. I've seen it happen. More than once

 

[andyd]

Getting a huge salary to do jack sh*t is not a constitutional right either. Stores, resturants, etc, everyone should triple their prices so the employees don't have to work as hard, places are less crowded etc. After all they are subsidizing that plasma tv you just bought for $1000 instead of $5000. That is the american way of thinking...getting the very most for your money. Why should the airlines be any different?

What is your definition of a Huge salary? and if you seriously consider what a 121 pilot does for a living as not doing jack sh*t then you really need to re-evaluate your career options. The people working at the stores, restaurants and factory assembly lines do not have the education level I have, the post graduate professional training nor the continued scrutiny that pilots have NOR do they have the near the respondsibility that we do. Doctors, lawyers, and select few others are compensated fairly for what they do/produce. I would also say to you that we also do not get paid for what we "do" for we also get paid for what we might "have to do".

I recently had 2 surgeries that required an mulitple doctors for several hours each. I viewed those 4 doctors as peers in the ses scale and rightly so. Perhaps someday when you have made the leap beyond the CFI world, put in your time at the regionals and are lucky enough to make the transition to a major and get off probation and start receiving sufficient pay for what you do...your view of your self worth will change for the better.

Yes I do believe that we are better that those other workers you mentioned and yes we are and should be compensated higher and NO i do not feel bad that i feel this way nor should i.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

we all knew what we signed up for when we showed up the first day of indoc

When I showed up for my first day of Indoc this industry was a helluva lot different/better than it is now.

 

[suupah]

Maybe he'll make regional captains "spread the wealth"....$56,000 can go SUCH a long way.
Maybe he'll just give mgt billions, oops, a trillion dollars so they can go bankrupt anyway and keep the coin.
Maybe he'll force regional FOs to pay for abortions.
Maybe he'll bow to JO when shaking his hand.
Or maybe he'll just butt out and let the free market dictate what happens...LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE.

I agree and disagree. The free market fails when controlled by people with unbridled greed, corruption and a complete lack of ethics. The airline industry is an obvious example that is set up to fail as it is at the moment.