UAL Preview 2013 rather than Contract 2012

[airksk]

Just like the 1985 strike at UAL. A UNIFIED pilot group can win every time. Whatever you say no voter.

Why would I want to be Unified under a crappy substandard contract? This contract gives lual a big raise and lcal the shaft.

I'm sure it will pass, but this will not be a unifying contract.

 

[100/hour/5y]

153 Update for 12/10/12

Monday, December 10, 2012

I. WE STAND CORRECTED
While giving an example of a situation when negotiations resumed quickly after voting “no,” we inadvertently stated that the Continental Flight Attendants rejected their TA in October 2007. The correct date when the Continental Flight Attendants rejected their TA was October 2010, and they ratified their second offer in January 2011. We apologize for the error.

Now, we have to wonder why the MEC blast mail that came out about two weeks ago listing off all the examples of rejected Tentative Agreements didn't include the one we mentioned. You would think that it would be highly relevant, considering that it happened right here at our own company and with the same management group that we are dealing with.

II. THANK YOU
We want to thank all of the pilots who attended our LEC townhall meetings. We recognize that your days off are precious and few, and we appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts, ask questions, and participate in lively discussions. We also truly appreciate your support as we carry your collective voice to the MEC.

III. DID YOU KNOW...
Sick leave: For all of you who were fortunate enough to save up your sick time in anticipation of bridging your retiree medical insurance, section 13-B of the TA stipulates that unused sick leave will be forfeited upon separation from the company. That's right- unless you are lucky enough to retire before January 2014, all that time you saved up (in many cases the equivalent to a year's work or more)- just vanishes!

Reserve “days off”: In spite of all the fancy acronyms of HDO, RDO, FDO, and CDO, the short explanation is that now ALL of those days (yes even the “Holy” ones) are no longer sacred, as our immoveable days were. You see, under our current contract, immoveable days for our reserves ensured they would be free from duty and home with their families. Short of a catastrophic event, the company was required to return a pilot to his base for his immoveable days. To the contrary, in this TA a reserve pilot- even going into a Holy Day Off- is subject to reassignment, just like a line holder (with one exception- a reserve may not be reassigned beyond an FDO "without his concurrence"). So while it is true that a day off is not moveable to begin a trip or sit reserve, there is still a chance you will work on your planned day off. Is nothing sacred?

Report delay & notification: Attention widebody commuters (and "Global" pilots everywhere)! Did you know that according to section 5-F-2-b-(1) of this TA, if the company “attempts” to notify you of a delay four hours prior to show, your report time can be rescheduled even if they don't actually make contact with you? So there you are, commuting in for your trip (and obviously your phone is off in compliance with FAA regulations), and when you land you receive a message to the effect of, “Hi Captain. Your 15-hour flight is now delayed by five hours. Hope that's not a problem!” This is a change from our current contract that requires Scheduling to make positive contact with you before your report time, otherwise you are considered to have started your duty day. Good luck getting some rest in that comfortable & peaceful crew room!

Delayed implementation: If you haven't looked closely at the Implementation Timeline (LOA 26), we suggest you take look. Of the 100 plus items on that list, here's a breakdown of when most of them take effect:

● 6 are effective at Date of Signing,
● 8 are effective with the second bid period after DOS,
● 26 are effective with the third bid period after DOS,
● 6 are effective with the fifth bid period after DOS,
● 5 are effective with the sixth bid period after DOS,
● 5 are effective after the eighth bid period (or later),
● 28 are effective “upon combined CMS”, and
● 16 are effective at some point determined by the JIT.

So, while the pay rates are effective immediately (well, most of them, at least), the bulk of work rule changes do not trigger until six months or later- in some cases much later and in other cases at a date TBD (as in “determined by the JIT”). Uh oh. We know how that worked out for us last time around.

Also, for those of you curious, the target date for “combined CMS” is September 2013, in anticipation of the FAA rule changes effective January 2014. Let us emphasize that is the “target” date. With the real deadline not until January 2014, who here wants to take a guess as to when the “combined CMS” will really come to fruition?

IV. CHECKMATE
Although we don't give our management much credit for the way they run an airline, they definitely have earned our respect in this game of chess that is about to end (at least for another five or six years). Even though they take plenty of missteps in the operation of the airline, they have proven their prowess at managing this pilot group and are close to winning this round.

By dragging negotiations out until the end of the year (they did dictate the schedule after all), they have forced us into making a decision near Christmas Time- when thoughts of finances and being with family may cloud our decisions. By having our two pilot groups face each other- one of which is experiencing a lot of upward movement while the other is stagnant- our management has successfully fostered envy and animosity between the two groups.

Moreover, our "professional managers" knew that this plan of theirs would prevent our two groups from working together to focus on the true target- management. We are too busy fighting over the scraps on the floor while our management plunders from the treasure chest. Our management may ruin our airline accidentally, but they certainly know how to intentionally destroy our profession.

 

[eaglesview]

153 Update for 12/10/12

Monday, December 10, 2012

I. WE STAND CORRECTED
While giving an example of a situation when negotiations resumed quickly after voting “no,” we inadvertently stated that the Continental Flight Attendants rejected their TA in October 2007. The correct date when the Continental Flight Attendants rejected their TA was October 2010, and they ratified their second offer in January 2011. We apologize for the error.

Now, we have to wonder why the MEC blast mail that came out about two weeks ago listing off all the examples of rejected Tentative Agreements didn't include the one we mentioned. You would think that it would be highly relevant, considering that it happened right here at our own company and with the same management group that we are dealing with.

II. THANK YOU
We want to thank all of the pilots who attended our LEC townhall meetings. We recognize that your days off are precious and few, and we appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts, ask questions, and participate in lively discussions. We also truly appreciate your support as we carry your collective voice to the MEC.

III. DID YOU KNOW...
Sick leave: For all of you who were fortunate enough to save up your sick time in anticipation of bridging your retiree medical insurance, section 13-B of the TA stipulates that unused sick leave will be forfeited upon separation from the company. That's right- unless you are lucky enough to retire before January 2014, all that time you saved up (in many cases the equivalent to a year's work or more)- just vanishes!

Reserve “days off”: In spite of all the fancy acronyms of HDO, RDO, FDO, and CDO, the short explanation is that now ALL of those days (yes even the “Holy” ones) are no longer sacred, as our immoveable days were. You see, under our current contract, immoveable days for our reserves ensured they would be free from duty and home with their families. Short of a catastrophic event, the company was required to return a pilot to his base for his immoveable days. To the contrary, in this TA a reserve pilot- even going into a Holy Day Off- is subject to reassignment, just like a line holder (with one exception- a reserve may not be reassigned beyond an FDO "without his concurrence"). So while it is true that a day off is not moveable to begin a trip or sit reserve, there is still a chance you will work on your planned day off. Is nothing sacred?

Report delay & notification: Attention widebody commuters (and "Global" pilots everywhere)! Did you know that according to section 5-F-2-b-(1) of this TA, if the company “attempts” to notify you of a delay four hours prior to show, your report time can be rescheduled even if they don't actually make contact with you? So there you are, commuting in for your trip (and obviously your phone is off in compliance with FAA regulations), and when you land you receive a message to the effect of, “Hi Captain. Your 15-hour flight is now delayed by five hours. Hope that's not a problem!” This is a change from our current contract that requires Scheduling to make positive contact with you before your report time, otherwise you are considered to have started your duty day. Good luck getting some rest in that comfortable & peaceful crew room!

Delayed implementation: If you haven't looked closely at the Implementation Timeline (LOA 26), we suggest you take look. Of the 100 plus items on that list, here's a breakdown of when most of them take effect:

● 6 are effective at Date of Signing,
● 8 are effective with the second bid period after DOS,
● 26 are effective with the third bid period after DOS,
● 6 are effective with the fifth bid period after DOS,
● 5 are effective with the sixth bid period after DOS,
● 5 are effective after the eighth bid period (or later),
● 28 are effective “upon combined CMS”, and
● 16 are effective at some point determined by the JIT.

So, while the pay rates are effective immediately (well, most of them, at least), the bulk of work rule changes do not trigger until six months or later- in some cases much later and in other cases at a date TBD (as in “determined by the JIT”). Uh oh. We know how that worked out for us last time around.

Also, for those of you curious, the target date for “combined CMS” is September 2013, in anticipation of the FAA rule changes effective January 2014. Let us emphasize that is the “target” date. With the real deadline not until January 2014, who here wants to take a guess as to when the “combined CMS” will really come to fruition?

IV. CHECKMATE
Although we don't give our management much credit for the way they run an airline, they definitely have earned our respect in this game of chess that is about to end (at least for another five or six years). Even though they take plenty of missteps in the operation of the airline, they have proven their prowess at managing this pilot group and are close to winning this round.

By dragging negotiations out until the end of the year (they did dictate the schedule after all), they have forced us into making a decision near Christmas Time- when thoughts of finances and being with family may cloud our decisions. By having our two pilot groups face each other- one of which is experiencing a lot of upward movement while the other is stagnant- our management has successfully fostered envy and animosity between the two groups.

Moreover, our "professional managers" knew that this plan of theirs would prevent our two groups from working together to focus on the true target- management. We are too busy fighting over the scraps on the floor while our management plunders from the treasure chest. Our management may ruin our airline accidentally, but they certainly know how to intentionally destroy our profession.

Oh good, now we can go to multiple threads and read the exact same thing...well done.

 

[Continental]

Oh good, now we can go to multiple threads and read the exact same thing...well done.

Maybe one will get through your thick head.

 

[eaglesview]

Maybe one will get through your thick head.

I doubt it. We'll see what happens Saturday.

 

[Dan Roman]

I am no were near informed enough to have an opinion on this thing, but one item jumped out at me as incredibably stupid on the companies part. The unused sick leave vanishing? Hello, if they did that wouldn't that simply encourage pilots to use it up while they still have it? I can't imagine too many pilots accruing all those hours and just happily accepting that the company is going to throw it out in "appreciation" for all your good work. Does the company really want to encourage increased sick calls?
Sure seems like a typical and all to common bean counter idea that doesn't take into reality.

 

[Flopgut]

They have been made aware of this possibility for a long time. It matches what DAL did with their sick leave. I think they should be offered a check for the sick leave FWIW.

But, here is what I think the company is doing: These are the same pilots who pick up open time when pilots are furloughed, whore for open time or junior manning, and supported 65. The company understands these pilots and I think they are willing to hedge their bets that they won't call in sick.

 

[calfo]

I don't understand how voting "yes" is supposed to unify us.... If we all crossed a picket line, would that unify us? If we all picked up open time with guys on furlough, would that unify us?

I've talked to my share of ual "yes" voters, and it seems like they won't admit to reading the ta.

All fear and no logic.

 

[Ex737Driver]

I am no were near informed enough to have an opinion on this thing, but one item jumped out at me as incredibably stupid on the companies part. The unused sick leave vanishing? Hello, if they did that wouldn't that simply encourage pilots to use it up while they still have it? I can't imagine too many pilots accruing all those hours and just happily accepting that the company is going to throw it out in "appreciation" for all your good work. Does the company really want to encourage increased sick calls?
Sure seems like a typical and all to common bean counter idea that doesn't take into reality.

Won't happen. Read or reread LOA 19. Who would to give a rat's a** about unused sick time when they could possibly get another fat payout?