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UAL, Jetblue may see a Reversal of Fortunes.

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Dav8tor

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Posts
131
United Air, JetBlue May See a Reversal of Fortunes: Doron Levin

Aug. 3 (Bloomberg) -- About the worst name you could call a big U.S. airline used to be ``legacy carrier,'' a term that fit an old-line transport industry marked by serial mismanagement, bloated wages and low worker productivity.
UAL Corp.'s United Airlines, one of four major American airlines that filed for bankruptcy in recent years, was just such a basket case.
By contrast, upstarts like JetBlue Airways Corp., a newcomer with pristine aircraft, leather seats, young employees and moderate pay scales, made the tradition-bound carriers and their loss-riddled operations seem lame and helpless.
Now there's change in the air. United and some other big airlines, under duress of bankruptcy, have slashed costs, renegotiated labor contracts and are beginning to post their first profits in years.
A quarter or two of profit hardly signifies a trend, of course, and the rise in oil prices has some forecasters predicting a recurrence of losses. The world's airlines may lose $3 billion this year, according to the International Air Transport Association, the industry trade group.
Some U.S. carriers such as JetBlue are suffering rising costs as well as growing pains. The airline, based in Forest Hills, New York, has been forced to scale back plans for growth as profitability becomes more difficult. Like other so-called low-cost carriers, it now must also compete against more formidable legacy airlines.
On July 25, JetBlue said second-quarter net income rose slightly to $14 million, its first year-over-year quarterly improvement since 2003. Still, the company said it may not be profitable for the year; it delayed delivery of 12 new airplanes and agreed to sell five this fall.
Discouraging Trend
JetBlue's share price, which reached a peak of $31.43 in October 2003 following its initial public offering in April 2002 at $27 a share, closed at $10.42 yesterday.
Southwest Airlines Co., the best-managed and most successful low-cost carrier, doubled its profit in the second quarter but cautioned that higher ticket prices -- it raised fares at least four times this year -- are discouraging some travelers.
``The lines are blurring, there's less and less meaningful distinction among the categories of airlines,'' noted John Heimlich, chief economist for the Air Transport Association, the U.S. airline industry's trade group based in Washington.
Between June 2001 and June 2005, the six major U.S. carriers, including United, reduced their fleets by 816 aircraft, to 2,690. That helped airlines fill a bigger percentage of seats and even raise prices. ``Revenue is the story of the quarter,'' Ray Neidl, an analyst at Calyon Securities in New York, told Bloomberg News on July 25.
Shaky Profits
In addition to United, Delta Air Lines Inc., Northwest Airlines Corp. and US Airways Group Inc. are major carriers that filed for bankruptcy in the recent past. These companies as well as Continental Airlines Inc., which emerged from bankruptcy in the 1990s, and American Airlines are considered legacy carriers.
AMR Corp., the parent of American Airlines and a company that dodged bankruptcy by a whisker, on July 19 posted second- quarter profit of $291 million, its first quarterly profit in a year.
American Airlines remains on shaky legs, as does US Airways, which had a profit of $305 million for the quarter. US Airways merged with America West, a low-cost carrier, in September last year and came out of bankruptcy.
Through the first six months of 2006, U.S. airlines by virtue of more travelers and higher prices improved revenue per available seat to 10.97 cents for each mile flown, up 14.5 percent from a year earlier.
UAL Shrinks
United this week said second-quarter net income was $119 million, or 93 cents a share. The Elk Grove Township, Illinois- based airline emerged from bankruptcy on Feb. 1, after filing for protection in December 2002.
Three years of losses, layoffs, cutbacks and intense negotiations with unions and creditors finally resulted in a new United that appears stable and poised to grow. UAL's chief executive officer, Glenn Tilton, said he's still only halfway to a goal of cutting 1,000 more salaried and management jobs by year's end.
According to the Air Transport Association, the U.S. airline industry shed 28 percent of its workforce, or 152,000 jobs, from 2001 to 2006, helping to reduce labor costs by $8.3 billion while raising productivity by 30 percent.
The soaring spot price of jet fuel, almost 30 percent higher than a year ago, and tighter control of costs by competitors are forcing managements to find even more ways to reduce spending. ``You can't just say we've had a good quarter'' and stop cutting, Heimlich said.
Bankruptcy Fix?
Some airlines are having trouble keeping pace. Northwest Airlines, the Eagan, Minnesota-based legacy carrier in bankruptcy since September, this week said it will impose a concessionary labor contract on flight attendants to save $195 million.
Flight attendants have rejected a proposed compromise and are threatening to strike. If they do and Northwest's operations are crippled, it could be decisive and lead to the airline's liquidation or an eventual merger. Many think the six majors could shrink to three via mergers.
United's turnaround, if sustained, may be a model for how a broken business can be fixed in bankruptcy. It might have been done quicker and cheaper, though some companies can't seem to find compromise without a judge.
JetBlue, whose prospects seemed sky-high when United and its like were stumbling, must reconfigure quickly just to stay in the game. Nowadays everyone is striving to be a low-cost carrier.
(Doron Levin is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)

To contact the writer of this column:Doron Levin in Southfield, Michigan at [email protected]
 
(Doron Levin is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)

I believe they mispelled his first name. I think it is actually MORON Levin.
 
none

I wish they would have put his credentials at the top of the article so I wouldn't have wasted my time reading it.
 
One thing he fails to mention about our stock price is that it has split 3 times since the IPO. Take the splits out and our stock price is near the LCC and UAUA inflated levels. What you have to look at for stock price is market capital, and ours hovers near $2 billion... AND we didn't spend 3 years in bankruptcy (UAUA) or go into it twice (LCC)...
 
BLUE BAYOU said:
One thing he fails to mention about our stock price is that it has split 3 times since the IPO. Take the splits out and our stock price is near the LCC and UAUA inflated levels. What you have to look at for stock price is market capital, and ours hovers near $2 billion... AND we didn't spend 3 years in bankruptcy (UAUA) or go into it twice (LCC)...

Do you deny the fact that the adjusted all-time high was $31.43 in Oct. '03?

My stock options are worthless. How 'bout yours?

GP
 
BLUE BAYOU said:
... AND we didn't spend 3 years in bankruptcy (UAUA) or go into it twice (LCC)...

The FLYI folks used to say that ... I guess that they still can. Their BK was much shorter than 3 years.
 
Andy said:
The FLYI folks used to say that ... I guess that they still can. Their BK was much shorter than 3 years.

Really? Specifically who said that? I guess you are proud to work for the company that utilized bankruptcy to the longest duration in airline history, stole your pensions while running minute long cartoon-mercials and running other companies (that customers preferred by a wide margin BTW) out of business.
 
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I'd Rather have Strong Legacy Carriers out there like United, American and Delta then a bunch of LCC like JetBlue or Air Tran. That pay poor and have nil for benefits in the terms of health insuurance. Like them or Not but thats the fastest way for the pilot industry to get back to it's proper place in terms of Pay, Retirerment and health Insurance.

Give it time in 2-3yrs United, American and Delta will be back at the top of there game and all those cool aid drinkers at the Blue will be jumping ship! In fact its already happening over there I've heard of a few have already left for better pay jobs like Fedex, and SWA just after finishing up there IOE and getting a free type out of the folks at blue. I have a few friends over there and most say "it's a job" and have that attitude that if a Real Legacy called they would leave.
 
Propblast said:
Really? Specifically who said that? I guess you are proud to work for the company that utilized bankruptcy to the longest duration in airline history, stole your pensions while running minute long cartoon-mercials and running other companies (that customers preferred by a wide margin BTW) out of business.

ROTFLMAOPIMP!
1) Specifically, who said that: LOTS of FLYI employees on message boards. On the now-defunct aca-lounge.com, FLYI employees had many posts containing that comment. As a former FLYI employee, if you aren't aware of fellow employees making those statements, you must have been living under a rock at FLYI.
2) Proud to work for the company that (blah, blah, blah)? My comment had no personal pride attached to it; it was merely a reminder that one should be careful when expressing such hubris.
3) Running other companies out of business. If you are referring to FLYI, they did that all by themselves (or Moore and Skeen did it) by pricing thier tickets well below BELF. In fact, if you'd care to take the time and dissect any of FLYI's 10Qs or 10As, you'd see that FLYI's BELF was always greater than 100%. I think that the BEST quarter they had, BELF was 106%; at least one quarter, it was in excess of 150% BELF. And United didn't start any fare war with FLYI; FLYI lowered the prices all by themselves.

Propblast, congratulations on being hired by JetBlue. I'm being sincere. It's a good company, but it does have some financial goblins hiding the closet. They may overcome them, they may not.
 
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popgoesbubble said:
I'd Rather have Strong Legacy Carriers out there like United, American and Delta then a bunch of LCC like JetBlue or Air Tran. That pay poor and have nil for benefits in the terms of health insuurance. Like them or Not but thats the fastest way for the pilot industry to get back to it's proper place in terms of Pay, Retirerment and health Insurance.

Give it time in 2-3yrs United, American and Delta will be back at the top of there game and all those cool aid drinkers at the Blue will be jumping ship! In fact its already happening over there I've heard of a few have already left for better pay jobs like Fedex, and SWA just after finishing up there IOE and getting a free type out of the folks at blue. I have a few friends over there and most say "it's a job" and have that attitude that if a Real Legacy called they would leave.

right..
 
popgoesbubble said:
I'd Rather have Strong Legacy Carriers out there like United, American and Delta then a bunch of LCC like JetBlue or Air Tran. That pay poor and have nil for benefits in the terms of health insuurance. Like them or Not but thats the fastest way for the pilot industry to get back to it's proper place in terms of Pay, Retirerment and health Insurance.

Give it time in 2-3yrs United, American and Delta will be back at the top of there game and all those cool aid drinkers at the Blue will be jumping ship! In fact its already happening over there I've heard of a few have already left for better pay jobs like Fedex, and SWA just after finishing up there IOE and getting a free type out of the folks at blue. I have a few friends over there and most say "it's a job" and have that attitude that if a Real Legacy called they would leave.

We don't get a type out of IOE genius. On the other hand, we don't have to pay for one to get a job either. I heard from a guy who knows someone who works there and they heard from a friend that somebody somehwere said "it's a job". Believe whatever opinions make you feel better or help you justify your own notions.
 
Name another airline out there that has NO union on it's property. I can't think of ANY. Yes, the IAM made a run for representation at this company and for now have been defeated, but to me, it says a lot when a workforce can do without third party representation-- it means the culture here is different. Does it mean we're all happy kool-aid drinkers? No, there is a lot of room for improvement here. Yes we have whiners, just like anywhere else. However, when you think we're dragging the industry down with pay, I beg to differ. As a five-year captain here, I make far more than a 5-year United A-320 captain. Mark my word also, the EMB-190 pay will soon come up. If anyone dragged the industry down, it was UAL by operating 3 years in bankruptcy, changing profit goals quarterly for the bankruptcy judge, and creating the infamous TED for fares that disrupted anyone who had to compete with them (like $79 R/T tickets from ORD to FL last December)... When this all shakes out, I hope everyone comes out OK. I'm just done with the bashing of the LCCs out there, especially JBLU-- I think you're just all jealous, ignorant, or something else...
 
Andy said:
ROTFLMAOPIMP!
1) Specifically, who said that: LOTS of FLYI employees on message boards. On the now-defunct aca-lounge.com, FLYI employees had many posts containing that comment. As a former FLYI employee, if you aren't aware of fellow employees making those statements, you must have been living under a rock at FLYI.
2) Proud to work for the company that (blah, blah, blah)? My comment had no personal pride attached to it; it was merely a reminder that one should be careful when expressing such hubris.
3) Running other companies out of business. If you are referring to FLYI, they did that all by themselves (or Moore and Skeen did it) by pricing thier tickets well below BELF. In fact, if you'd care to take the time and dissect any of FLYI's 10Qs or 10As, you'd see that FLYI's BELF was always greater than 100%. I think that the BEST quarter they had, BELF was 106%; at least one quarter, it was in excess of 150% BELF. And United didn't start any fare war with FLYI; FLYI lowered the prices all by themselves.

Propblast, congratulations on being hired by JetBlue. I'm being sincere. It's a good company, but it does have some financial goblins hiding the closet. They may overcome them, they may not.

Glad I gave you something to laugh about.

My point was that there was never a reason for anyone at FLYI to say something like, "... AND we didn't spend 3 years in bankruptcy (UAUA) or go into it twice (LCC)..." as you claim.

Were there people that bragged that we were giving UAL the finger? Yup. I think the closest you could come to a statement like that is that UAL milked bankruptcy, at least in part, to continue to compete at IAD. The reality was that UAL was loosing money on pax at the rate of about $25 per ticket BEFORE Indy Air. The ticket prices after FLYI were about 1/3 to 1/2 the original cost which would have been unsustainable. Ticket prices at those levels would have been profitable but two important things happened:

1. UAL matched.
2. Fuel went up about 150%

UAL knew that they could unprofitably keep fares low even while IDE tried to raise them to match the increasing (fuel) costs and watch the bank accounts drain at IDE and that is exactly what they did. All this is, of course, causal to the high BELFs.

This is not to say that Skeen and Moore didn't make mistakes - they did. But they weren't mistakes that would have made a huge difference (maybe a few more months of operation).

Thanks for your best wishes.

-PB

BTW, I did care to dissect FLYI's 10Qs and 10Ks - but I don't think FLYI ever filed a 10A. ;)
 
Propblast said:
Ticket prices at those levels would have been profitable but two important things happened:

1. UAL matched.
2. Fuel went up about 150%

BTW, I did care to dissect FLYI's 10Qs and 10Ks - but I don't think FLYI ever filed a 10A. ;)

Propblast, ya got me on the 10A vs K; typed faster than I proofread. :0

However, I disagree that ticket prices would have been profitable; please find me a quarter when BELF was below 100%. FLYI got closer in the end when more Airbii came on line, but it wasn't enough to overcome the high RJ CASM.

As for UAL matching fares, UAL lowered but rarely matched. For fuel prices, everyone except Southwest had to cope with higher fuel prices. FLYI's business plan did not take into account any adverse problems.

And again, seriously, good luck at JetBlue. They're a good company. I loved flying fifi; especially the 110 pound tray table (that's the max weight that the tray table can withstand :D ).
 
popgoesbubble said:
I'd Rather have Strong Legacy Carriers out there like United, American and Delta then a bunch of LCC like JetBlue or Air Tran. That pay poor and have nil for benefits in the terms of health insuurance. .

Right, JetBlue pays food stamps the first year and "have nil benefits in terms if health insurance" for the first six months. Oh wait that's not JetBlue, it's the lone legacy that's currently hiring.
 
Propblast said:
Really? Specifically who said that? I guess you are proud to work for the company that utilized bankruptcy to the longest duration in airline history, stole your pensions while running minute long cartoon-mercials and running other companies (that customers preferred by a wide margin BTW) out of business.


I'm sure passengers preferred being crammed into their aircraft... hence the 35% load factor on a 50 seat airplane.
 
BLUE BAYOU said:
However, when you think we're dragging the industry down with pay, I beg to differ. As a five-year captain here, I make far more than a 5-year United A-320 captain. Mark my word also, the EMB-190 pay will soon come up. If anyone dragged the industry down, it was UAL by operating 3 years in bankruptcy, changing profit goals quarterly for the bankruptcy judge, and creating the infamous TED for fares that disrupted anyone who had to compete with them (like $79 R/T tickets from ORD to FL last December)... When this all shakes out, I hope everyone comes out OK. I'm just done with the bashing of the LCCs out there, especially JBLU-- I think you're just all jealous, ignorant, or something else...
BB: You say you are a 5 year Captain at jetBlue and that you don’t think that you are responsible for dragging down pay in this industry. Apparently you base that statement on the fact that you make more than a 5 year United 737 Captain now. That is all well and good. I’m not jealous and I may be ignorant, but here are some facts you might want to consider when making your case. I don’t really have a dog in this fight but I don’t understand how you can make such a statement with a straight face.

Perhaps some data from the 2001-2002 Airline Salary Survey by AirInc will illustrate the effect your company has had on industry wages:

2001 UA 737-200 Captain monthly “salary” estimation for 80 hours per month:

$14,600 or $175K per year, with 4-5% raises for the next 3 years to 16,600 or $200K per year.

United also had an A plan and a B plan back then.

2001 jB A320 Captain monthly “salary” estimate for an 80 hour month:

8000 per month, or $96,000 per year. No A or B fund.

Yes, you have some 401K match and stock options and all, but they probably don’t equal the B fund, so for argument sake lets call those a wash and even say that since the A fund is gone now well get rid of that.

That means that in 2001 you accepted a job to fly basically comparable equipment for about half of what you might have made if you took the job with United.

Now you boast that you make more than that UA pilot, but can’t understand why people might say that jB exerted some downward pressure on industry wages. I’m not even an industry analyst but I can pretty much figure out that if you can find people willing to do roughly the same job for half as much money, that might depress wages in that industry.

That is how the market works, and there were certainly a lot of market forces at play over the past 5 years, pilot pay only being one of them, but just because you are “on top” (of United anyway) doesn’t absolve you of the downward pressure you put on the industry over that time frame.

Whining about competition driving prices down (Ted) doesn’t exactly make you sound any more credible either. So no, you aren't dragging down the industry anymore, you have, however, effectively helped bring it down to its current level, which is much lower than it was in 2001.

Before you get all indignant and huffy about my post, realize that I am not making any judgment about you or jB, I am just trying to explain to you why some folks might think that you helped drag industry pay down.

FJ
 
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The revolution in the industry was SWA, not Jetblue. Stock options and 401ks were NOT industry standard like the A/B plans at the majors...yet most companies are doing that now. Cheap walk up fares were not invented in 2000 by JB, but SWA has had them for years.

In 2000 I was talking the an AF Reserve Colonel and Delta pilot, and I asked who Delta's competition was now that Eastern was in the graveyard. (I grew up listening to 2 of my college buddies father's talk about their big rival Eastern). He told me it was SWA, and he had no idea how to compete with them since their labor costs were so much lower. It is true that SWA now is close to industry leading, but the other companies shrank to their rates, not vice versa. I have no beef with SWA--lot of friends there and its a great company. But in 2002 JB had 20 planes and SWA had about 400+, so I'd probably be looking in that direction if I were wondering where the price pressure really came from.
 
Falconjet,

Are you saying that a start-up airline with a handful of airplanes brought about the demise of the pilot contract at a 50+ year old legacy carrier?

In 2001 B6 had been around for less than a year. It was a start-up airline. All start-up airlines have subpar compensation. That's why they are called 'start-ups'. Fastforward 5 short years. Now B6 is a bonafide major airline and our pay is on par with the rest of the industry. You say we brought you down. I say the industry was headed for a correction with or without JetBlue and we improved to meet the going rate. You also conveniently leave SWA out of the picture. They were already a major airline in 2001 and were compensated well below the going rate.
 
Falconjet and the rest,

JB didnt do anything to an industry that wasnt going to happen already, 9-11 just expedited it.

JB is not bringing down the industry in terms of pay. If you think a company with 100 airplanes has that much power then you are a complete friggin' moron.

SWA took almost 30 years to get to be "the job". Their pay was a helluva lot worse than ours for a long time. They were given time to get things together but JB isnt? Give me a break.

Continental and United are full of scabs...but that doesnt matter because JB is bringing down the industry.

How about all the airline pilots out there who paid a commuter $10,000 for a job? Did they bring down the industry? Those are the very people who are complaining today. What they did was fine because "thats what you had to do at the time" and somehow that justifies it.

Let me get something perfectly clear, I work for JB and I like it but, yes, it is just a job. Im not defending it but it sure does get annoying listening to all the know it alls on this board spewing their "industry knowledge".

The majority of the two faced people on this board make me sick. You are all high and mighty because you are the only ones who never stooped to a lower level.

Lastly, the same people you are blasting at B6 are more than likely furloughed from your airlines. Should they not have taken the job at JetBlue because they were contributing to the decline of the industry but rather accepted a flow back position with a regional that pays wages that qualify you for food stamps because they were ALPA?

Get off the company's case retards and look in the mirror.
 
Falconjet said:
BB: You say you are a 5 year Captain at jetBlue and that you don’t think that you are responsible for dragging down pay in this industry. Apparently you base that statement on the fact that you make more than a 5 year United 737 Captain now. That is all well and good. I’m not jealous and I may be ignorant, but here are some facts you might want to consider when making your case. I don’t really have a dog in this fight but I don’t understand how you can make such a statement with a straight face.

Perhaps some data from the 2001-2002 Airline Salary Survey by AirInc will illustrate the effect your company has had on industry wages:

2001 UA 737-200 Captain monthly “salary” estimation for 80 hours per month:

$14,600 or $175K per year, with 4-5% raises for the next 3 years to 16,600 or $200K per year.

United also had an A plan and a B plan back then.

2001 jB A320 Captain monthly “salary” estimate for an 80 hour month:

8000 per month, or $96,000 per year. No A or B fund.

Yes, you have some 401K match and stock options and all, but they probably don’t equal the B fund, so for argument sake lets call those a wash and even say that since the A fund is gone now well get rid of that.

That means that in 2001 you accepted a job to fly basically comparable equipment for about half of what you might have made if you took the job with United.

Now you boast that you make more than that UA pilot, but can’t understand why people might say that jB exerted some downward pressure on industry wages. I’m not even an industry analyst but I can pretty much figure out that if you can find people willing to do roughly the same job for half as much money, that might depress wages in that industry.

That is how the market works, and there were certainly a lot of market forces at play over the past 5 years, pilot pay only being one of them, but just because you are “on top” (of United anyway) doesn’t absolve you of the downward pressure you put on the industry over that time frame.

Whining about competition driving prices down (Ted) doesn’t exactly make you sound any more credible either. So no, you aren't dragging down the industry anymore, you have, however, effectively helped bring it down to its current level, which is much lower than it was in 2001.

Before you get all indignant and huffy about my post, realize that I am not making any judgment about you or jB, I am just trying to explain to you why some folks might think that you helped drag industry pay down.

FJ

I'm with Albie on this one: we have @115 planes and just a bit more than 440 flights a day ... today. Please compare that to wn, ua, co, dl, lcc etc.

Back in 2000-2003, jb was way too small to have the impact you imply it did with regards to wages in the industry. Even today we are small fry, about one fourth the size of swa for example.

You might as well blame jb on the bankruptcies as well.
 
AlbieF15 said:
........and SWA had about 400+, so I'd probably be looking in that direction if I were wondering where the price pressure really came from.

Not from an airline that only served 50+ cities. I have to wonder about some pilots on this board who blame their pay and QOL on various LCC's. Lesson number 1, the Management at many of those Legacy carriers, driven by ego and unrealistic plans, drove those very airlines into the shape they are now. They failed to Hedge, failed to have backup plans and when it all went down the tubes, blamed LCC's instead of themselves. You would have thought there would have been lynchings in DC, Minneapolis, Atlanta and Dallas. But to my astonishment there are still pilots out there who blame Southwest more than their own Management, even after they took your pay and QOL to make up for their mistakes. Freakin incredible. Too bad the NWA F/A's and MX are the only ones who figured it out.:rolleyes:
 
Lake Alice said:
SWA took almost 30 years to get to be "the job". Their pay was a helluva lot worse than ours for a long time.

We were abused and sued more than any other airline in history. Try being a startup in 1971! Airlines did every thing they could to try to run us out of business the first 25 years from lawsuits to airlines within airlines. We had to compete with FULL STRENGTH Legacy carriers, not the watered down versions of today. The pay rates at SWA in the first 25 years were a direct reflection of an airline that constantly stood on the edge of a cliff, hoping a Legacy carrier didn't push us off. If anyone is to blame for the early SWA payrates it would be the Legacy carriers who would not stop trying to stomp us out. Every time SWA pilots thought they might get ahead, here comes United Shuttle, no wait Cal Lite, no it's MetroJet. It's a wonder this airline is still here. Actually, when I go to work I know why it's still here.
 
I agree with much of the above. I don't blame jB for anything. I merely pointed out some facts about the pay scales in effect at the time Blue Bayou was hired at jB. He says he can't understand why some people blame LCCs in general and jB in particular for the downward pressure on industry wages.

I am saying that just by saying that you are on top now does not absolve the company of exerting downward pressure on wages in the past. I am saying that the company did exert downward pressure on industry wages.

That is all I am saying.

As for the size issue, do you think that just because DHL is smaller than FedEx and UPS that we shouldn't be worried about their wages? Any market forces in the downward direction will impact the rest of the industry. Maybe not a lot, but some.

Can anyone argue that workers coming into any industry willing to work for roughly half the pay of current workers will have no effect on that industry's overall wages? Anyone.

Isn't that why everybody (ok, half of the people) on here hates Walmart? Downward pressure on wages and benefits?

After all, they were small at one time too.

FJ
 
Falconjet said:
As for the size issue, do you think that just because DHL is smaller than FedEx and UPS that we shouldn't be worried about their wages? Any market forces in the downward direction will impact the rest of the industry. Maybe not a lot, but some.

FJ

These are issues that Management need to focus on, not the pilot group. They should already be thinking of ways to ensure that the FedEx brand is the one to use, always. If they come to the pilots to pay for mistakes they made, then I would have a serious problem with that if I were employed there. I wouldn't even consider DHL for shipping as I usually go no further than FedEx. Why? It's my perception that FedEx is reliable, and as many people would say "who the He!! is DHL"?
 

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