UAIR & Pilots Agree

[lowecur]

This will set the bar for E-Class mainline scope. Not good for mainline pay, but it gets the furloughed back to work.


US Airways, pilots reach wage and benefits agreement

The governing body of the union representing US Airways' pilots approved a resolution late Tuesday to accept a wage and benefits plan that helps speed the launch of US Airways' planned regional airline, MidAtlantic Airways.


The lower pay scale, approved by the Air Line Pilots Association's MEC during a conference call, includes wage rates that are comparable to those paid at American Eagle, American Airlines' commuter division.

Those rates are significantly lower than those paid to US Airways' mainline pilots and are among the lowest in the regional airline industry. A mainline captain usually makes from $100 to $200 an hour flying US Airways' larger jets. A MidAtlantic captain likely will get from $50 to $60 an hour, ALPA spokesman Jack Stephan said previously.

In addition, the agreement calls for furloughed pilots from US Airways' mainline operations to fly the regional jets.

US Airways, which operates one of its largest hubs at Pittsburgh International Airport, views the regional jets as an essential piece of a restructuring plan that includes lowering its costs to better compete with discount carriers, such as Southwest Airlines and JetBlue. Those low-cost airlines have been rapidly encroaching on US Airways' key routes along the East Coast.

US Airways has said it expects to receive the first of 85 regional jets it ordered from a Brazil-based aircraft manufacturer, Embraer, later this month. The more efficient, 70-seat airplanes will go a long way toward improving US Airways' bottom line, according to the airline, which last week reported a $98 million fourth quarter 2003 loss.

The loss, which equaled $1.82 per share, was significantly lower than the No. 7 domestic carrier's year-earlier loss of $794 million. Operating revenue also rose more than 9 percent to $1.76 billion from $1.61 billion during the 2002 period.

The airline did not report 2003 versus 2002 financials because it was working through a Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring from August 2002 until March 2003.

Since its successful emergence from Chapter 11, the Arlington, Va.-based airline has fallen on hard times again and is considering a liquidation of some of its assets. David Siegel, the company's president and chief executive, told financial analysts late last year the airline wanted to cut costs by as much as $300 million in 2004. Those cuts are in addition to employee work rule changes and wage and benefit concessions he will seek.

US Airways is working to meet a number of financial milestones required under the nearly $1 billion in federal loan guarantees it was granted last year by the Air Transportation Stabilization Board to help the company emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection last March.

 

[blzr]

US Air is finally realizing that they are just a REGIONAL AIRLINE that has a couple of MAJOR AIRLINE routs.

Either you are a Regional Airline pilot making Major Airline pay rates, or you are a Major Airline pilot flying regional routes.

Which is it?

U.S.Airways will soon be known as the MESA of the Majors.

 

[lowecur]

This pay rate will transcend across the industry. This will allow UAIR to use the E-Class against WN in PHL, and should allow them to compete very effectively. UAIR should have close to 40 170's by the end of the year, and 85 next year. They will be up to speed very quickly.

Arpey will be forced to go to the unions and ask for similar scope and pay. Will he get it? Not without a struggle, but the handwriting is on the wall. Once this happens, the flood gates will open. Yes, WN will be forced to buy the ac. This is a different airline world, and the change will happen very quickly.

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

Lowecur stay off of the crack, you really need to sell that emb stock before usairs unfortunate demise.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Lowecur,

you lost me. Pay rates on 70 seat jets don't equate to pay rates on 130 to 180 seat jets. Even with a wide disparity in pilot pay the bigger jets, if filled with similarly priced ticket paying passengers, can still turn a much higher profit.

I'm sure you're still counting on the larger jets going mostly empty. But that is not going to happen at legacy carriers that can roll in the regional jets when warranted. USAir pay will not affect American like you think.

Respectfully,


FBJ

 

[lowecur]

Flyboeing Jets

You're right, under that scenerio.

My point was that UAIR will be able to counter WN's initial encroachment into PHL with the 170, much better than without it. WN will not be able to throw large capacity at UAIR as they will not have the gates. The 170's will have an ergonomic advantage on the 737 NG with 2x2 seating, and will be able to be turned very quickly. I think the customers are going to luv it.

As far as AMR having to follow, I think that is part of Arpey's blueprint. He wants mainline scope and pay concessions so they can buy the E-series. As UAIR expands their so called "mainline regional," this will be the start of the other carriers mgt lobbying for the same deal to "compete." The 190 and 195 are just too close to the 737 in terms of size not to force either a reduction in pay or a new scope and pay for these a/c.

 

[dlredline]

This pay rate will transcend across the industry. This will allow UAIR to use the E-Class against WN in PHL, and should allow them to compete very effectively. UAIR should have close to 40 170's by the end of the year, and 85 next year. They will be up to speed very quickly. . .

Lowercur,

A couple of points:

First: It should be pointed out that the pay rates and health benefits "negotiated" by the U MEC were already in the language of the existing U contract. They "won" something already provided. So while ALPA bends over backwards patting themselves on the back, they lowered the bar and hosed almost 1900 furloughed pilots by imposing a substandard pay for the E170 without allowing the very pilots who'll have to live at these payscales a voice in the matter. Typical USAirways ALPA MEC.

Second: They've "won" pay and benefits for the APL pilots for an airplane that hasn't even flown a single RPM, for a company that may use a chunk of the deliveries in an "asset sale", and has questionable financing for those they may eventually take. Assuming a mismanaged group like USAirways will have anywhere close to 40 of these by the year may be a little optimistic, but I hope you're right.

On a side note Lowercur, I had the opportunity to sit and visit the E170 in FLL last year. A very nice looking airplane, though I wouldn't necessarily compare it in size to anything close to a DC9 or B737 series (however the pics of the E190 on it's rollout naturally looked a little larger - thanks for providing those). The cockpit was smaller than I expected, the cabin roomy but not spacious, and the forward closet where the forward stairs folds into an eyesore (hopefully Jetblue won't order that door/closet on it's E190's). The vision out the cockpit window was very good, and everything for the pilot within easy reach, though I personally found the thrust levers (which stand almost 9 inches high) a little out of place. The CRT's seemed a little dimmer than the A320's in the Florida sunlight, but they may have been turned down. And one of the guys I was with had to contort his 6 foot 4 frame into the seat, although I'm glad they J-tracked both cockpit seats. Having flown the E120, I can attest to the comfort of the "ram" yoke. My concern (from a JetBlue standpoint) is how the F/O will position his laptop to perform the OPS weight and balance prior to pushback. I'm sure our integration team is looking into those items.

Could you expand on some of these items? I really would appreciate your input.

Red

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I think when people make comparisons between the 170 and the dc-9 and 737-200's they are referring to the aircrafts original design seating.

The DC-9-30's originally held 89 I believe and the 200 was somewhere around the same number, until the cattlecar mentality hit.

The 170 is simply the first generation of the same thing ie. the 175 etc.

The rates that U agreed to are so low for that size aircraft, that if you start there as a base and look up the food chain you end up with $85,000 to $95,000 as a max pay for something the size of a 767. And you can bet the CEO's of the airline world have already realized this.

In an industry that is based on what the competition does, this is a very bad precident to set.

 

[zonker]

The 190 is not exactly a 717, but it's not far off:

717-200 (From Boeing):

MTOW (Basic): 110,000
Length: 124 ft
Wingspan: 93 ft
Max fuel: 24,609 lb
Interior Height: 80 in.


E190:

MTOW: 105,000 (110,000 LR)
Length: 118 ft
Wingspan: 94 ft
Max fuel: 28,660
Interior Height: 79 in.

Couldn't find any info on cabin width for the 717. For the Embraer, it's 9 feet. And it's been a while since I've sat in a -9 cockpit, but the 170 seemed similar in...spaciousness.

 

[General Lee]

I believe USAir will get around 85 Emb-170's--but how many EMB-190's? Also, do you really think that this pay rate will affect the new Jetblue rates on the EMB-190? It just might.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lowecur]

General

I believe USAir will get around 85 Emb-170's--but how many EMB-190's? Also, do you really think that this pay rate will affect the new Jetblue rates on the EMB-190? It just might.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

No 190's. My point is the ergonomics of the E-series will force other airline mgt to "match." We're not dealing with the small cabin CRJ or ERJ's. These are competitive "full size" mainline cabins, with 2X2 seating, that will fly between a 7.5 to 8.5 CASM.

Yes, B6 will either have to match or come very close.

 

[AAPilot]

AMR wants the 70/90 seat planes bad and APA wants APA pilots back on the property, so I would see an agreement between the two to obtain these A/C. Howerver I believe APA is not going to sell out the pilots as easily as ALPO keeps doing with all of its members. AMR is certainly in a better financial position then UAir and I believe the pay rates will be equal to a B-scale, somewhere around the F-100 rates. Just a thought

 

[lowecur]

AMR wants the 70/90 seat planes bad and APA wants APA pilots back on the property, so I would see an agreement between the two to obtain these A/C. Howerver I believe APA is not going to sell out the pilots as easily as ALPO keeps doing with all of its members.

I hope you're right, but negotiations will be tough for APA. These are essentially the Eagle rates superimposed on the E-series. What do they pay the F-100 pilots? This is not good news for anyone flying 737 or smaller.

 

[westy1]

Seriously, everyone should realize this is not the saving grace for Airways. So they have made it up to about 1990 compared to the rest of the industry. Airways is still, and will continue to be, a very mismanaged airline. MidAtlantic was supposed to be running about 5 months ago and they still don't have an aircraft to fly. Over the last several months, they have gone out of their way to anger most of our passengers as well as employee's. MidAtlantic will cost a lot of money which U does not have. I still believe that is Airways makes it through the summer it will be amazing.