Type Rating

[Casper]

I am still thinking about getting typed in the Citation can anyone tell me which would be better to get The CJ or the 500 series?

 

[pilotmiketx]

unless you can afford 100 hours in type or have a job lined up, don't bother. get a decent 135 job. Get to know somebody who flies single-pilot, part 91 who'll let you sit right seat. 50 hours SIC is worth more than 5 dual and 1 PIC.

the 500 series covers more models. most CJs are flown SP, which wouldn't be you.

 

[scubabri]

I give, if it's single pilot part 91, how would you log this as SIC? Or are you saying to do it for the experience?

sb

 

[pilotmiketx]

Just because the pilot has a single pilot type rating doesn't mean you can't operate the a/c with 2 pilots. I'm talking about airplanes like the CJ, 501SP, etc, not King Air 90s or PA-31Ts.

As long as the second pilot is appropriately rated, he can log the time as SIC (comm MEL, high alt, high perf., 3 t/o and ldgs.)

Single pilot types usually (if not always) have a limitation against giving instruction while carrying pax, so you'll have to get your 3 t/o and ldgs with an empty plane (mx hop, empty leg, etc)

The only other hurdle is insurance. Some policies prohibit anyone occupying the right seat unless they meet the insurance requirements.

 

[7B2]

receiving instruction is the only option, but how's that going to look in your logbook??

FAR 61.51(f) allows the second-in-command to log flight time as second in command (SIC) as follows:

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of § 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

In order to log second-in-command flight time, the SIC must be a required flight crewmember by regulation or type certification. Required by the company, insurance carrier, customer, PIC, etc. does not count.

 

[pilotmiketx]

7B2,

I think you made my point, although not sure what "receiving instruction is the only option" means. If an appropriately rated pilot occupies a required crewmember station and the plane requires 2 pilots, then it's SIC time. It doesn't matter if the pilot has a single pilot waiver on his type rating. That's why I made the distinction between single pilot aircraft such as the King Air 90, 200, etc and Citation 501 and CJ. Both Citations require 2 pilots, unless a pilot has the Single Pilot Waiver. Even if the pilot has a single pilot waiver, he is not required to operate the aircraft single pilot.

In the case of part 135, if the company's OpSpec require two pilots on a C-172, then you could log SIC time as well. So "Required by the company" really becomes required by regulation (the regulation is the OpSpec) That's how Airnet's Baron SIC program worked.

I'm done writing about it. If you're still not clear, I suggest you call your local FSDO.

 

[flx757]

This subject has been beaten so to death on this board, but one more thing that I think is important to mention (again) is that before you can be a "required crewmember" and legally be the SIC, you must have recevied the required training as specified in 61.55, as 7B2 mentioned. 61.51 is very specific. What 7B2 wrote is exactly correct. Those are the 2 requirements that must be satisfied to log SIC time.

(BTW...contacting your local FSDO will do you about the same good, and carry about the same weight as asking for 15 opinions on this board. Ask 15 FSDOs, get 15 answers. And NONE of them carry any weight when it comes to a legal interpretaion of the CFR.)

 

[English]

7B2,

I think you made my point, although not sure what "receiving instruction is the only option" means. If an appropriately rated pilot occupies a required crewmember station and the plane requires 2 pilots, then it's SIC time. It doesn't matter if the pilot has a single pilot waiver on his type rating. That's why I made the distinction between single pilot aircraft such as the King Air 90, 200, etc and Citation 501 and CJ. Both Citations require 2 pilots, unless a pilot has the Single Pilot Waiver. Even if the pilot has a single pilot waiver, he is not required to operate the aircraft single pilot.

In the case of part 135, if the company's OpSpec require two pilots on a C-172, then you could log SIC time as well. So "Required by the company" really becomes required by regulation (the regulation is the OpSpec) That's how Airnet's Baron SIC program worked.

I'm done writing about it. If you're still not clear, I suggest you call your local FSDO.

'

The CJ IS a single pilot aircraft. There is no waiver for the CJ. Go look up the type certificate data sheet - minimum of one pilot required.

 

[Timebuilder]

I can't see getting typed unless you get an 8410 under someone's op specs, and have a job offer before getting the training. Even then, if it's a good job, the training should be paid for.

Lots of time will be required, such as TT and PIC time (only under part 91, since PIC time in a 135 operation should be PIC time as a captain, with the current PIC 8410 and checks) in order for you to move up to left seat under most insurance plans.

No time in type, and no job offer? Don't do it.

Besides, if you get typed and they put you in a single pilot operation as a gear operator, where is that going to lead?

 

[cvoav8r]

Casper,
So what did you decide on that type rating? what is your current Job...I might know of a job for you.