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Twin engine training
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bobbysamd
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Multi
If your budget can swing it, I would get your multi first, beginning with your Private multi. After that, get your Instrument and initial Commercial in the multi. All your time after getting your Private multi will count as PIC. Going that route will give you the most bang for your multi buck, give you more multi hours during training, and really provide a positive training experience.
At least two of the major flight schools, ERAU and FlightSafety, use multi for initial Instrument and Commercial training. I know; I worked at both and saw the program work. I recommend the plan highly.
If your budget can swing it, I would get your multi first, beginning with your Private multi. After that, get your Instrument and initial Commercial in the multi. All your time after getting your Private multi will count as PIC. Going that route will give you the most bang for your multi buck, give you more multi hours during training, and really provide a positive training experience.
At least two of the major flight schools, ERAU and FlightSafety, use multi for initial Instrument and Commercial training. I know; I worked at both and saw the program work. I recommend the plan highly.
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I second that. I am a FlightSafety grad and it was definately worth my money to do my instrument in the twin. I got my multi private first then onto my instrument then multi commercial. Not only do you log PIC in the twin after your private but also keeps you on your toes during your instrument phase. Keeping up with instrument procedures in a twin is much more difficult than doing in a single engine because you are moving much faster and things happen alot quicker. If you can afford it, I highly recommend doing your multi private then inst. in the twin. Good Luck
I'm just now prepping for my private multi checkride. I finished my PPL in a C172 about a month ago and went straight into a Beech Baron. It was an incredible difference in flight performance with everything happening much quicker, especially in the pattern. I tended--and still do to some extent--overshoot my turns in the pattern or have a larger pattern than necessary.
Not only was there the matter of transitioning to a twin, but I also was learning how to operate the gear and a constant speed propellor. It was a handful, but I have a great instructor and I feel I've learned so much more quicker than if I had gone the usual route of PPL, Instrument, Commercial SE, then Commercial ME. And as has been noted, I can now build twin PIC time during my Instrument and Commercial training, and during the 50 hours of cross country needed for the Instrument.
I have about 14 hours in the Baron now. I recommend getting the private multi after the PPL. It's not that difficult if you have a good instructor. Most people are able to rise to a resonable challenge thrown at them... just my $.02
Good luck.
Not only was there the matter of transitioning to a twin, but I also was learning how to operate the gear and a constant speed propellor. It was a handful, but I have a great instructor and I feel I've learned so much more quicker than if I had gone the usual route of PPL, Instrument, Commercial SE, then Commercial ME. And as has been noted, I can now build twin PIC time during my Instrument and Commercial training, and during the 50 hours of cross country needed for the Instrument.
I have about 14 hours in the Baron now. I recommend getting the private multi after the PPL. It's not that difficult if you have a good instructor. Most people are able to rise to a resonable challenge thrown at them... just my $.02
Good luck.
bobbysamd
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Time requirements
Carlos, why don't you try flying a slightly wider pattern? You're probably flying the Baron at about 110 kts on downwind, as opposed to 80 kts or so on downwind in the 172. Hope that helps a little.
Not necessarily. You still need your 250 hours for your Commercial under Part 61 or 190-200 hours under Part 141. Things do happen faster in a twin if you're used to flying slow singles, but you'll get up to speed fast enough. Once you're used to the airplane, you'll be fine. The more you fly it, the easier it will be.tataki said:
Carlos, why don't you try flying a slightly wider pattern? You're probably flying the Baron at about 110 kts on downwind, as opposed to 80 kts or so on downwind in the 172. Hope that helps a little.
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Carlos,
If you do not mind, could you please let us know what you are paying for the twin training?
I am currently getting my PPL and then transfer to allatp for my twin training. Will have 140 hrs twin time when I complete the program.
I feel I need to some how get the 500 hrs. multi , but do not have a clue on how to get it. 20,000?, more, Who knows.
Does anybody have a idea on how to obtain these hours without putting myself in the hole more than I am in already.
Thanks for any advice.
If you do not mind, could you please let us know what you are paying for the twin training?
I am currently getting my PPL and then transfer to allatp for my twin training. Will have 140 hrs twin time when I complete the program.
I feel I need to some how get the 500 hrs. multi , but do not have a clue on how to get it. 20,000?, more, Who knows.
Does anybody have a idea on how to obtain these hours without putting myself in the hole more than I am in already.
Thanks for any advice.
Building your hours with twin time is definitely more expensive, but then it's worth so much more, too, so you need to balance that against the cost. I'm not getting any great deal on the twin time--it's still close to $200 an hour.
One thing to keep in mind when calculating the cost, though, is that no matter what you are paying, you should subtract out the cost of flying the same hours in a single engine. The reason for looking at it this way is that you are basically substituting ME time for SE time during your training.
For example, if you want to get 100 hours of ME time, you would buy 150 hours of SE time and then 100 hours of ME time during your training. If you followed the typical program of PPL, Instrument, Commercial SE, and then Commercial ME, then to get 100 hours of ME time you would have to spend about 235 hours of SE time, followed by 100 hours of ME time. (This assumes it takes you about 15 hours training for the commercial ME under a part 61 program requiring 250 hours total).
So, just as a basic comparison of rental costs using the hours above, if you figure $80 an hour for SE and $180 an hour for ME, the total cost for getting 100 hours ME and 150 hours SE during your initial training is $30,000, while getting only 15 hours of ME abd 235 hours of SE during your initial training and buying the additional 85 hours of ME later would be a total cost of $36,800.
True, you'll have less total time, but you'll more than make up the SE time during your stint as a CFI, but making up those ME hours is much more difficult.
One thing to keep in mind when calculating the cost, though, is that no matter what you are paying, you should subtract out the cost of flying the same hours in a single engine. The reason for looking at it this way is that you are basically substituting ME time for SE time during your training.
For example, if you want to get 100 hours of ME time, you would buy 150 hours of SE time and then 100 hours of ME time during your training. If you followed the typical program of PPL, Instrument, Commercial SE, and then Commercial ME, then to get 100 hours of ME time you would have to spend about 235 hours of SE time, followed by 100 hours of ME time. (This assumes it takes you about 15 hours training for the commercial ME under a part 61 program requiring 250 hours total).
So, just as a basic comparison of rental costs using the hours above, if you figure $80 an hour for SE and $180 an hour for ME, the total cost for getting 100 hours ME and 150 hours SE during your initial training is $30,000, while getting only 15 hours of ME abd 235 hours of SE during your initial training and buying the additional 85 hours of ME later would be a total cost of $36,800.
True, you'll have less total time, but you'll more than make up the SE time during your stint as a CFI, but making up those ME hours is much more difficult.
bobbysamd
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ME X-C
One further point is the cross-country time requirement for your Commercial. Unless you REALLY want to spend the money, fly those hours in the single. True, you would be building legit multi time, but all you're doing is fulfilling a certification requirement. Moreover, I can't think of any schools, much less FBOs, which will rent a twin to a low-time multi pilot.
Most programs that use multis for Commercial-Instrument certification have students build up their cross-country time in singles immediately after they earn their Private tickets. After they fly off their cross-countries they start in the multi. They have about 100 hours total at that point.
One further point is the cross-country time requirement for your Commercial. Unless you REALLY want to spend the money, fly those hours in the single. True, you would be building legit multi time, but all you're doing is fulfilling a certification requirement. Moreover, I can't think of any schools, much less FBOs, which will rent a twin to a low-time multi pilot.
Most programs that use multis for Commercial-Instrument certification have students build up their cross-country time in singles immediately after they earn their Private tickets. After they fly off their cross-countries they start in the multi. They have about 100 hours total at that point.
Very true. I'm actually going to be flying with an MEI in the right seat on any ME cross-country time to satisfy the insurance company. I'll be paying for their time, as well, so that's an additional cost.
What bobbysamd suggests makes sense. Fly the cross-country time in a single engine, by yourself, and then pay for the multi and an MEI for the time that you would need an instructor in the right seat, anyway. Otherwise, you're just paying someone to warm the right seat. I'll have to look into this, myself.
FlySacto
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Here's what I did with a little added twist:
Private SEL
Private MEL
Instrument in the multi
Commercial single and multi-engine in the same checkride. Performed all the single engine maneuvers in a C-172, landed, and then demonstrated the complex AC operations in the twin. Once that was done satisfactorily, I had passed the single engine commercial. We then departed the airport to go fly the maneuvers for the commercial multi add-on. The DE filled out two temp certificates. I signed and gave back the single engine on and kept the combined single and multi.
Doing the commercial this way kept me from paying for an instructor to ride along while filling the solo xc requirements in the multi. Use the twin to fill those hours of dual in a "complex airplane". Read 61.129 (3)(ii) carefully and you'll see that the words don't say a "single engine complex airplane".
FlySacto
Private SEL
Private MEL
Instrument in the multi
Commercial single and multi-engine in the same checkride. Performed all the single engine maneuvers in a C-172, landed, and then demonstrated the complex AC operations in the twin. Once that was done satisfactorily, I had passed the single engine commercial. We then departed the airport to go fly the maneuvers for the commercial multi add-on. The DE filled out two temp certificates. I signed and gave back the single engine on and kept the combined single and multi.
Doing the commercial this way kept me from paying for an instructor to ride along while filling the solo xc requirements in the multi. Use the twin to fill those hours of dual in a "complex airplane". Read 61.129 (3)(ii) carefully and you'll see that the words don't say a "single engine complex airplane".
FlySacto
bobbysamd
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Complex airplane
14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(ii) states that to be certficated as a Commercial pilot that, among other things, you must have "10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller . . . "
It makes no difference if you obtain that training in a retractable single or a twin (most twins that you are likely to fly in training will have a retractable landing gear). Most good school Private multiengine courses have at least ten hours of multi training. Thus, if you earn a Private Multi you have the requirements of 14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(ii) covered.
Really, doing as much training as possible in the multis is an excellent way to maximize the value of that time, and it gives you somewhat of a head start on building multi time. Those are good reasons to do it that way, although I, as an instructor on hiatus, liked it more for the quality training experience it offers.
Hope that helps.
14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(ii) states that to be certficated as a Commercial pilot that, among other things, you must have "10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller . . . "
It makes no difference if you obtain that training in a retractable single or a twin (most twins that you are likely to fly in training will have a retractable landing gear). Most good school Private multiengine courses have at least ten hours of multi training. Thus, if you earn a Private Multi you have the requirements of 14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(ii) covered.
Really, doing as much training as possible in the multis is an excellent way to maximize the value of that time, and it gives you somewhat of a head start on building multi time. Those are good reasons to do it that way, although I, as an instructor on hiatus, liked it more for the quality training experience it offers.
Hope that helps.
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I fitted in a few hours in a Bonanza just prior to going to ATP to do my private multi, and boy did that help ...
The Bonanza is fun to fly, but stuff happens fast in it, especially in the pattern where it will drop the nose and speed up whilst you are checking the (faint) gear light on the obsessive GUMPs checks ;-)
I found the PA44 pretty docile in the pattern in comparison. It was loads of fun on one (simulated) engine also, like trying to land a feather when feathered ...
The Bonanza is fun to fly, but stuff happens fast in it, especially in the pattern where it will drop the nose and speed up whilst you are checking the (faint) gear light on the obsessive GUMPs checks ;-)
I found the PA44 pretty docile in the pattern in comparison. It was loads of fun on one (simulated) engine also, like trying to land a feather when feathered ...
CitationLover
Aw, Nuts!
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- Feb 26, 2003
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i guess im the only one to disagree.
the extra cost isn't worth the "extra" 20 or so hours you will get in multi-time. with todays hiring environment it does not matter if you have these additional 20 hours.
most students are still learning how to fly up to their commercial. stick with a single and learn in that. use the savings from not flying the twin to buy extra time in it.
get your cfi as fast as possible and start building total time. once you hit 1000TT then start worrying about multi-time.
my $0.02
the extra cost isn't worth the "extra" 20 or so hours you will get in multi-time. with todays hiring environment it does not matter if you have these additional 20 hours.
most students are still learning how to fly up to their commercial. stick with a single and learn in that. use the savings from not flying the twin to buy extra time in it.
get your cfi as fast as possible and start building total time. once you hit 1000TT then start worrying about multi-time.
my $0.02
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