Trouble for me?

[skymonkey007]

Today was my first expericence with an angry Chief Flight Instructor. I am 20 and have 180 hours and hopefully this December (2002) I will recieve my instrument.
Now the problem:

This morning I flew a cross country that should have taken 8 hours, but I decided to make a stop to visit family. I stayed over for 4 hours at this particular airport and returned to my destination airport to find my flight instructor in array. He told me I was in deep, that because I failed to file my flight plan he had no way to check on me. I used flight following and landed at all my planned destination airports, but he felt the need to contact the cheif flight instructor. Now my question is, filing a flight plan is highly recommended, yet it is not manditory right? So how much trouble could I get in? I used flight following, planned all legs, and did not break any regulations. I know I should have filed a flight plan, I have no excuse for that, but I remember it not being manditory. So whats the worst that could happen??

Thanks for your help in my desperate times (even though they may seem VERY minor compared to some of the stories Ive read).

 

[avbug]

SkyM,

Under Part 91, you are not required to file a flight plan. Your school or club may require this, or your insurance company may require this, however. Failure to comply with these requirements won't net you a violation or enforcement action from the FAA, but it may cause issues with your club or school.

While VFR radar advisories ("flight following") are a good idea, you should file a flight plan. As you can see, you didn't notify people, and a problem resulted. What if you hadn't been with your family, but had been involved in an incident or accident?

You are probably aware by now that flight following is a courtesy service. It's not uncommon to be dropped out of the loop when a controller gets busy, and forgotten. You may not be missed. Then where are you?

A flight plan provides more information. In the event of a search, knowledge of the amount of fuel on board and your planned true airspeed is important in determining the search area, or circular area of probable detection. The number of people on board is important knowledge. Anyone who has ever arrived at the scene of an accident and begun to find bodies knows that it's important to know how many to look for. Even details such as the color of the aircraft are important for search parties...even if it turns out you only forgot to close your flight plan, and your airplane turns up during the first phase of the search, the ramp check.

I suggest that you be humble and contrite, and assure your instructor that you'll be more responsible with notification again. You aren't guilty of a high crime by any means, but it is not your airplane, and if your school sets certain requirements for the rental of their airplanes, you should abide by them.

That said, at 180 hours, you should have the basics down. You are paying the bills. You have the legal right, as a certificated pilot, to make decisions for yourself. If your instructor pitches a fit, suggest that perhaps he or she takes a vallium and takes a moment to reflect who is paying the bill. That would be you. This makes you the employer. If your instructor doesn't realize that, and insists on the more common new-instructor-thinks-he's-God approach, get a different instructor.

Tell the instructor you'll let him know where you'll be, and other than that, lay off, back off, and get a life. You have one, obviously. Tell him or her to get his own.

 

[501261]

Ya, you might be in deep....with the flight school. You certainly did absolutely nothing wrong in regards to the FAR's with not filing.

I know that some of the airline style schools (ERAU, Farmington, etc) are very strict with filing flight plans and this might be a reason for you to have failed the lesson, or possibly get kicked out of the school.

Personally I'd tell this "big shot" to take a valium. How is he supposed to "check on you" with a VFR flight plan? It's not like a VFR plan is being tracked or anything, I guess he could have called the appropriate FSS and seen if a flight plan had been activated or closed.

The bottom-line is that you, the student, are also a customer. And if you feel like this big shot is being a dick, then I'm sure there are quite a few other CFI's out there that would like to get your business.

Here's another hint, when somebody tells you broke a reg, that sounds asinine, ask which one and pull out the FAR's. Not the AIM, school rules, or Bubba's intuition, only the FAR's will get you busted by the FAA. And nowhere under 91.153 does it say you are required to file or open a VFR flight plan.

 

[avbug]

Bear in mind that there is more to consider than simply the CFR. FAA Orders, Legal Interpretations, etc, also apply. These are equally applicable and defensible before an administrative law judge. Simply looking at your copy of the "FAR" doesn't always cut it.

 

[*42*]

I think he'll put you on probation, unless he doesn' t like you. Sometimes a flight instructor doesn't like a student's attitude. I remember once when someone at my flight school broke a little-known SOP, they decided to kick him out because the chief flight instructor "had a bad feeling."

You need to familiarize yourself with the Standard Operating Procedures again. I don't care if you're flying a Cessna 152 for fun or a 747 into O'Hare, if you're not familiar with the SOPs pertaining to that flight, you're putting the owner at risk. Here's why, Many insurance companies require that operators fly in accordance with established SOPs (usually req's that are higher than FARs) to be insured. If there is an accident, the insurance company might not pay, claiming the flight was not flown in accordance with SOPs under which they insured the operator. How much do you think that airplane cost? $50,000 - $60,000? Probably. And just think, if you had taken it out, gotten lost, ran out of gas, and totaled the plane...the insurance company could deny the claim. You said you were gone 4 hours longer than you were supposed to be? Your instructor was probably thinking the worst. See why he was mad?

If I were you, I would say you're sorry and that you confused the FARs with the SOPs. Hopefully, you mean it. DO NOT say, "well, it doesn't say in the FARs that I have to file.." That would show lack of respect for authority, and aviation cannot afford these kinds of people.

 

[chrisdahut24]

I'm gonna have to side with *42* on this one.
Did you tell your flight instructor you were going to be as long as you were? Doesn't sound like you did. I'd be going crazy too if one of my students were 4 hours over due!

As for the flight plan, although the instructor can't track you precisely, he can have some knowledge of your whereabouts. If one of my students goes solo crosscountry, they land at 3 seperate airports total, and I tell them to file 3 seperate plans for each leg. That way I can call up FSS to see which leg they are currently on. Not perfect, but much better then nothing.

 

[BradG]

I work at a flight school as a CFI and as an Aircraft Dispatcher. I think if this was a personal flight, not a "Student" type cross country, and you had the aircraft scheduled for the entire time (ie. you werent late), then you should tell the flight instructor to lay off. You had the plane for x amount of hours, and decided to make use of your time. I dont think you should have to "Check In" with a CFI before you take a trip, assuming your a Private Pilot. This guy sounds like he is just on a power trip. Even if you had filed a flight plan, it still wouldnt account for the 4 hours you stayed there, i usually file right before i leave. So after you've been there 3 hours, the school still would know where you, even if you had the intention of filing a flight plan. Dont worry about what the Chief Instructor says too much, if he's an A$$, you shouldnt have to take that, your the one paying right? Im sure there's another school that would love to have your money, and would probobly be a little nicer.

 

[tarp]

Wait a minute....

You have 180 hours, you are a private pilot.

So you rented a plane from an FBO.

The question now is did you "block" the airplane for 8 hours and keep it for twelve? Without calling anyone at the FBO?

I'd be torqued too. Maintaining a rental and training fleet is a tough business. To be successful, you need to keep multiple customers in each plane and you need to keep those planes flying. Customers can not just take over the business and decide to keep airplanes for themselves.

As to the "flight plan", it may have been the last straw.

I had multiple run in's with customers about airplanes and fees for retrieving airplanes. I had one VFR pilot that loved to take an airplane on Friday and get stuck in IFR weather. Lost 8 days of revenue on my only C-182 to this guy who I eventually banned from renting from us. On the other hand, is the most gut wrenching call you can get.....after 5 hours I learned that one of our students crashed a C-172 on an X-C and she died. So, did I get concerned when one of our birds was out too long? You bet.

You know what I liked about growing up in the 60's - we learned that we were not the center of the universe. Other people matter. Your story like all on this board probably doesn't convey the opposing view.

My VFR guy told other people at the flight school that I was irrational and told him to stay with the airplane and fly it back in marginal weather. I said nothing of the sort. I did almost break our display case when I saw him standing in front of me telling our receptionist that we would have to send somebody to Albany to pick up our airplane. He rented a car and drove home because he didn't want to miss work on Monday. When told he would be charged daily minimums and a retrieval fee that paid for two pilots and the C-172 that would now have to go 210 miles to Albany, he balked. I told him he could have stayed with the plane and waited for the weather to clear instead of forcing me to go get it. He was going to pay one way or the other. But, of course, it was the flight school's fault for this?????

So did you bust a FAR or have some huge offense? No. Did you disrupt someone's business and give another CFI another gray hair? Yes. I guess you never kept the family car out too long or stayed at your girlfriends house till the wee hours of the morning when you were a teenager. Well, this is how it feels to be reamed by your parents when you come home. That's how I learned about responsibility.

 

[Country Wild]

Communication is the key, yes technically you were legal...but if your instructor panicked enough he could have started the search and rescue process. That may have ended up a being a big headache. Next time call the FBO and tell your CFI that you are gonna stop or take longer, I am sure he won't mind.
FLY SAFE

 

[skymonkey007]

Followup

Just a little more information, I was not renting this aircraft from a local FBO. My flight instructor (at a 141 school) told me to take a while, i needed 9.1 hours or cross-country. So I tried but was too tired and stopped at a local airport that I knew was approved in our sylabus. Then I ate dinner and continued on with my flight. My best shot is too totally tell the truth of what happened and appologize. I did not think of the SOP's till it was mentioned in a reply, and I thank you for bringing that to my atention. I will not go into the Cheif Flight Instructor and tell him that "well I didnt bust any regs right?" That is exactally the kind of pilot I dont want to be. I will accept responsibility for what I failed to do and hopefully they will see that I have the right attitude and that I am not borderline "crazy pilot with macho attitude" and let me continue on with my training. Thanks for all your help, Ill talk to him tomarrow (Monday 16th, December) and post a reply on his decision.