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Triumph for Mesaba pilots union???

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mesaba2425

Hmmmmm
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Posts
280
From the Star Tribune:


Turmoil turned to triumph for Mesaba pilots union
Liz Fedor, Star Tribune

Published January 18, 2004 MESA18OL

When Mesaba Airlines pilots returned to the bargaining table five days before their Jan. 9 strike deadline, it seemed as though they were under siege.

Northwest Airlines, the regional carrier's only customer, was asking its own pilots to take pay cuts. Eagan-based Northwest also was considering the removal of four-engine Avro jets from Mesaba's fleet. Pilot leaders said Mesaba management was pressuring them to accept a "cost-neutral" contract agreement. And Mesaba's parent company, MAIR Holdings, was planning to expand through Big Sky Airlines, a Montana-based subsidiary with lower labor costs, possibly threatening the job security of Mesaba pilots.

Despite that tough negotiating environment, however, the union reached a five-year agreement that provides major pay hikes and enriched retirement benefits. The pact also forces MAIR Holdings to grow the corporation with Mesaba pilots.

Mesaba spokesman Dave Jackson has declined to comment on the specific terms of the contract, because of the pending pilots' vote. "The goal was to get an agreement done and we did that," Jackson said. "Obviously, getting past these negotiations was a big step for us and we are looking forward to the future with Northwest Airlines as our partner."

How did the Mesaba pilots win this contract -- and without a strike?

"We had an extremely well-organized and unified pilot group that understood what their goals were," said Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba Air Line Pilots Association unit. "The company understood this would not be a group that would cave."

Ultimately, Wychor said, Mesaba management had two choices: Put more money on the table or trigger a strike.

Mesaba's 844 pilots also knew that they were not waging a labor fight on their own. ALPA pilots who fly for Northwest and Pinnacle Airlines, Northwest's Memphis-based regional partner, pledged not to fly Mesaba flights during a strike. "Their support was very instrumental in allowing us to protect our flanks if we had to take these negotiations to the mat," Wychor said.

Mesaba pilots also drew on another power base -- Duane Woerth, president of ALPA International, who successfully transformed the labor struggle at Mesaba into a national battle.

Fearing that the major airlines would pit one regional carrier against another in a bidding war that would lead to a downward spiral in wages for regional pilots, Woerth wielded ALPA's considerable clout, at one point sending members of Congress copies of a newspaper story about Mesaba pilots who hold two jobs because the starting pay was about $17,000.

Woerth came to the Twin Cities on Jan. 5 to support Mesaba pilots at a fiery public rally. Meanwhile, he was involved in an important behind-the-scenes power play that helped Mesaba Airlines get a settlement.Woerth, who previously flew Northwest 747s and served on Northwest's board of directors, told Northwest senior management what it would take to get a deal with the Mesaba pilots.

"Northwest wasn't going to be having anybody from their team in the [negotiating] room," Woerth said. But it is undeniable that Mesaba is part of the Northwest brand, he said, because Mesaba flies regional routes exclusively for Northwest with aircraft owned and leased by Northwest.

"It was a very simple message, very clear," Woerth said. He told Northwest management that the Mesaba pilots must get compensation that would put them on par with their regional airline peers as well as win job-security provisions that would block Mesaba's parent company from using non-Mesaba pilots to do expansion flying.

"I didn't have to talk to [CEO Richard] Anderson directly, nor did I have to talk to [President Doug] Steenland directly, but they got the message," he said.

In the end, Mesaba pilots emerged with a contract settlement that won unanimous support from its elected union leadership. Pilots will conduct a ratification vote in late January on the pact, which provides immediate raises of 13.4 to 26.7 percent for first officers and 5.1 percent raises for captains, who fly Saab turboprops and Avro jets.

Raising bad memories

Woerth did not identify the Northwest executives to whom he and his staff spoke about the Mesaba pilots' contract. However, he said that he raised the specter of the 1998 pilots' strike at Northwest, which cost the airline about $1 billion.

Woerth said he told Northwest executives: "We can play the blame game [with a Mesaba strike] like we're going to probably do to our graves about the 1998 strike. Or we can both ensure that there's enough movement early enough on Friday."

When the 11:01 p.m. Friday strike deadline rolled around on Jan. 9, Mesaba ALPA's Wychor announced to the media that pilots would not walk off the job and talks would continue.

Northwest spokesman Bill Mellon said Northwest was pleased to see Mesaba management and its pilots union reach an agreement. He added that "Northwest will not comment on any of Capt. Woerth's statements, because as a matter of company policy we don't comment on labor discussions."

Mark McClain, chairman of Northwest ALPA, was at the Embassy Suites in Bloomington last weekend to support fellow ALPA pilots from Mesaba. "I've been through quite a few rounds of bargaining. This was probably the longest uninterrupted session that I've ever witnessed," McClain said early Sunday after about 39 consecutive hours of talks.

Mesaba management and union negotiators opened talks at about 8:30 a.m. Friday, Jan. 9 , and they continued to exchange proposals until a tentative pact was reached and Mesaba ALPA's executive council approved it at 12:10 a.m. Sunday, Jan. 11.

"I think that that is amazing," said McClain, who spoke to the Mesaba ALPA executive council after the agreement was approved.

"Their pilots are very well represented," he said. "That's just not rhetoric. These guys have really got it together. Their negotiating committee is about as sharp as I've seen."

While Wychor recognizes the clout he gained from ALPA International and the Northwest and Pinnacle pilots, he said the union's success flows from the fact that Mesaba pilots never deviated from clear contract goals.

"Everything we asked for was fair and equitable and reasonable -- in line with the industry and our regional peers," Wychor said.

Under the existing contract, Mesaba pilots flying 85 hours per month earn an average of $17,352 to $85,445. The new agreement boosts that range to $23,542 to $94,483. The five-year agreement includes 2 percent pay raises in years two and three of the contract and 4 percent raises in years four and five.

While Mesaba pilots pushed for a contract that would place them in the same pay tier with Comair, Atlantic Coast and Air Wisconsin, those pay raises were not the most vexing issue in the talks.

Job security

"Job security was a very big issue for our pilots," Wychor said. "That was the last issue at the table."

Since MAIR Holdings acquired Big Sky Airlines in December 2002, many Mesaba pilots have worried that MAIR would funnel new flying opportunities to Big Sky instead of giving that work to Mesaba pilots.

Paul Foley, MAIR's CEO, told Wall Street analysts in an October conference call that he was soliciting airline partners to fly regional jets at Big Sky.

"We did not buy Big Sky to fly [19-seat] Metros in [federally-subsidized] markets out of Billings," Foley said. Referring to new flying options, one analyst asked Foley: "You'd be using the Big Sky pilots, you wouldn't be using the Mesaba pilots, would you?"

Foley replied, "That's correct."

The Mesaba pilots effectively killed Foley's plans with their tentative labor agreement, which restricts Big Sky to flying aircraft with 19 or fewer seats. The new contract also guarantees that any new flying obtained by MAIR, Mesaba Aviation or any other MAIR subsidiary aside from Big Sky be done by Mesaba pilots.

Woerth said the restriction on Big Sky was a huge victory.

"The industry was hoping they would have these holding company structures to create more and more fee-for-departure pilot supply houses, and see if we'd start a bidding war" among regional carriers, Woerth said.

Regional airlines rely on a major airline for their planes, routes and ticket sales. In return, they are paid a fee for flying the airplanes to destinations determined by the major airline. In that type of relationship, Woerth said, the major carriers could attempt to frequently switch regional partners based on the lowest bidder.

Robert Mann, an airline industry analyst from New York, said MAIR had hoped to use Big Sky as a whipsaw against Mesaba.

"If they were able to create a small jet operation at Big Sky with costs presumably even less than those at Pinnacle and far less than those at Mesaba, it would create an opportunity to divert work to Big Sky and create savings," Mann said.

Woerth said that strategy was halted in its tracks.

Pilots from other regional airlines closely watched the Mesaba talks, Woerth said. "Everybody is now abuzz about how we replicate what happened in Minnesota."
 
I hear the TA won't pass because, in reality, it ain't very good at all.... Is that what you guys are hearing too?
 
I heard the same thing from a Saab captain. He said it most likely won't pass. The way he talked they didn't get much at all. Mentioned a raise for new hires. Well when you aren't hiring that diesn't mean much. Also what does that mean for the current pilots? Nothing!!! He said there are a lot of FO's that are pi$$ed and won't be voting yes to it. He said maybe the only ones that might vote yes are the senior Avro captains.
 
Sounds like spin to me.

Watch out for the MEC trying to "Sell" a substandard TA to it's members. Take everything they say about it with a grain of salt and educate yourself as much as you can before you vote on it.
 
The sad thing is that it WILL pass. I have been in this situation before. The biggest loud mouths that you would never expect to vote yes end up doing so. I hope that won't happen though. Mesaba Pilots are good people.
 
I've been here at XJ for quite awhile. And the bottom line is this.. Tom Wychor (MEC Chair) and his group of negotiators sold us down the river - AGAIN.. especially the FO's AND Pinnacle. This is NOT a "contract of our peers" as he and "Woerthless" keep spewing to the press. The facts are this...

Captains get a 5% raise across the board.. (3% for 50 seat rates).

FO's get a 13.4% raise across the board. The FO's are still making the same regardless which airplane they fly.. Saab or 69 seat AVRO.

Per Dium went up to $1.45 from $1.35

No Trip & Duty - but a minimum 4 hr day.

Increased 401k by 1% - but the senior captains with 16+ years got an added addendum of 100% & 125% matching to their 10% contribution.

And that's about it folks... oh yeah I forgot - SCOPE...

Here are some facts about payrates that are supposedly in line with our peers...

50 seat rate

New Hire
$23.08 - XJ
$23.40 - CMR
$22.28 - ACA

5 year FO
$34.08 - XJ
$40.73 - CMR
$38.78 - ACA
$34.31 - Pinnacle

Captain - 7 year
$64.89 - XJ
$72.40 - CMR
$68.93 - ACA
$65.52 - Pinnacle

Does anyone else see the problem here? For the past 3 years, our MEC built us up with the premise that we were going after Comair & Air Willy + 2% in this next contract. For 3 years they pumped us up and drove home the point about Comair, ACA, and Air Willy.. Now that this TA comes out, they are saying we cant get Comair rates because we arent as big as they are, and it would be like comparing apples to oranges.. WTF...

Regardless of whether this TA is passed, in the end we will make sure that our MEC - Tom Wychor, Scott Patz, Jon Marut - Negotiators - Tom Gliadon, Brad Schirmers, Mark Nagel & some of our shady LEC reps are fired and sent back to the line.. this whipsaw within our group has got to stop... we get enough of it from NWA mainline..
 
Avro driver


You can be dissappointed with the contract as I would be but unless you go and help the negotiating process, don't rip on everyone who volunteered their time to help you.

Theses people have spent the last few years trying to help you and the rest of the pilot group. If you can do better than the negotiaters, go and do it! It is a lot harder than everybody thinks.

Two words... member ratification. If this TA fails to be voted in, then these same people will be sent back to the table to try and get some more for all of you.

Get out and help or shut up!


Just a humble opinion from an ex Mesaber


Seeee Yaaaaa

Good luck everybody
 
Last edited:
OakRBust

I am glad you made it out of XJ over to SWA.

But, you dont know what you are talking about. Look around you.. the union is spewing to the press that we got a "contract of our peers", while it's clear that it isnt. They are also assuming that this TA will pass. Yes, we have MEMRAT.. and I can live with the outcome either way. I am just having a problem with our union saying one thing and doing another.

I dont know how long you've been gone, but 900+ days is a long time to negotiate. 900 days of being pumped up by the union. A union I might add that kept telling us that we would strike at the deadline, then backed off.. Backed off and with a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty deal.

Come back over bro' and live the life as a "small jet" operator, and give up the 'cush' gig at SWA, and then you might change your mind.. things here have changed drastically since the last AVRO arrived on property...

Wychor and his minions need to hit the road.. they've sold us out AGAIN....

Fly Safe..
 
avrodriverj85 said:
I've been here at XJ for quite awhile. And the bottom line is this.. Tom Wychor (MEC Chair) and his group of negotiators sold us down the river - AGAIN.. especially the FO's AND Pinnacle.

Exactly, this contract will seriously affect our negotiations, that is why you see so many PCL pilots that feelso strongly about this TA being fair and really raising the bar.
 
I agree that the deal is less than what you all had hoped for and were told to expect. But... Are you helping.. That is my point.

The union didn't sell out anyone. If you all feel that the TA is unfair, then vote it down. If it fails, then say thanks boys for the scope.... now please go back to the table and get us A, B, C....

If it passes, then don't be pissed at the union. Be pissed that you didn't help negotiate.

I am not trying to be mean, it just reminds me of all the pilots that would sit in their nice hard saab seats 5 minutes after push and complain why the bags aren't loaded yet. Get off your butt and lend a hand, or sit there and be quiet.

As for the union getting yer hopes up... That was really not cool.


I want the best for all of you (pilots) and Mesaba as a whole. I hope it works out for everyones benefit.


Seeeee Yaaaaaa

Oak
 
It's guys like that which truly divide a pilot group. The MEC put this out for us to vote on. So Vote!!

You haven't done a thing to help anyone on this property but yourself. You whine every time things don't go your way, but don't lift a finger to help.

Didn't you recently threat to leave the industry if you didn't get a massive raise?? That's enough insentive for me to vote YES on this TA, and send you packing.
 
Has anyone confronted the MEC at one of the road shows? Asked them point blank why they backed off from their PROMSIE to deliver?

I would vote no on the TA and then Gray Davis their pathetic a$$es.

If they couldn't deliver, they should have never promised.
 
T-Gates said:
Exactly, this contract will seriously affect our negotiations, that is why you see so many PCL pilots that feelso strongly about this TA being fair and really raising the bar.


Exactly, I REALLY hope that if all this info about the TA is correct that it gets voted down, otherwise we're (Pinnacle) going to have some major problems during our negotiations. I can hear management now....Well, Mesaba's CRJ rates in their new contract are less than ours from 4 years ago...??? :eek:
 
good point avrodriver85

Every point that avrodriver wrote about was correct. I was at the rally, i recieved all the propaganda in the mail.....all of the MEC's hype was about getting a fair deal like our peers at Comair and Airwilly and ACA i am just happy to have a job at a quality company, but was appauled at the current contract proposal. What happened to all the yelling and fist pounding at the rally....it turned into a Pinnicle contract....come on! if that was our goal ...do not hype us up for someting and then give us something else.....but i do realize that they have worked hard for so long....and gave in for so little!......i hope we have growth to make up for it after it gets approved!
 
One more thing for pinnacle guys, remember LOA 21? I seem to remember over the last few years that your union didn't do a whole lot as far as letting Mesaba guys come to pinnacle, like we did for you in the late 90's. So let me see, you expect us to risk our jobs so you can get a better contract, and just because some of you picketed with us, and others volunteered in the strike center. Maybe we need a bit more than that guys, what if we try to raise the bar for you and we all end up on the street? What will it be then? "Who is Mesaba, never heard of them..."
 
saabtrash said:
One more thing for pinnacle guys, remember LOA 21? I seem to remember over the last few years that your union didn't do a whole lot as far as letting Mesaba guys come to pinnacle, like we did for you in the late 90's. So let me see, you expect us to risk our jobs so you can get a better contract, and just because some of you picketed with us, and others volunteered in the strike center. Maybe we need a bit more than that guys, what if we try to raise the bar for you and we all end up on the street? What will it be then? "Who is Mesaba, never heard of them..."

Our MEC Chairman made alot of effort to educate all of us on LOA 21.... MOstly because not many people left on the seniority list were around in '97, including myself.

That being said, LOA 21 was created because of a substantial and I mean substantial loss of flying by then, Express I. Overnight the airline lost 1/2 of it's flying (All of MSP) Nothing to that effect has taken place at Mesaba to cause reciprocal action. But you can be assured that if Mesaba were to undergo the draconian cuts that we endured, your pilots would be welcomed on our seniority list as our were welcomed on yours in '97. Our MEC started looking into this specifically when NWA first threatened to take away the Avros.

If you all end up on the street, LOA 21 will come into effect, plain and simple. Don't discount our support. Just because we aren't all as vocal about our support, we're all there. What more we can do, I'm not sure.
 
Say 1 lucky dude...

OakRBust said:
The union didn't sell out anyone.

Instead of giving condescending lectures to these Mesaba guys about union participation from your seat at another airline, why don't you ask some Captains you fly with why SWA isn't in ALPA.
 
Quit fighting eachother! Your playing into Anderson's hands. Mesaba Pilots- Vote NO or you deserve what you get.
Pin- Dont bow to the pressure the XJ contract will put on you.
 

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