Tricks of the trade; Let's fly the NDB 28 KUES

[A Squared]

Out bound from the NDB, what is this point that one can measuring their time to, in order to calculate ground speed?

If you're outbound form the NDB, it's too late.

Having two identifiable points would certainly make this easy.

Howzabout the Badger VOR and the Waukesha NDB????????? You did say you came from the BAE vor didn't you?

It's 4.8 NM. in calm wind, it should take you 144 seconds. with a 120 knot wind from 295, it will take you 88 seconds. That's almost a minute difference. That should be within the timing capabilities of anyone who should be flying an airplane. no? also you'll have about a 35 degree wind correction on that transition. That should have been another clue that something extrordinary is happening.

Additionally, you said you were *holding* at BAE. Did ya happen to notice that the outbound and inbound legs were a little different timewise? THis isn't rocket sience, but you do have to be paying attention.


I think that the point you should be taking is that you shouldn't be arriving at the NDB without the foggiest clue what winds you're dealing with. The timing and estimating winds should have taken place *before* you were overhead the NDB.

 

[A Squared]

Kind of steep for an approach with 1000-ft MDH, but apparently the TERPS say its doable.

Not a problem, he's got a 120 knot headwind inbound. in a 120 knot airplane, his descent gradient is infinite.

 

[dmrogers]

Well, the winds are 270/170

with the perfect storm wind conditions I have accidentally created....the ground speeds/ crab angles would be this:

Wait never mind….on the route between BAE and the NDB at 120 kts, a 90 degree Wind correction angle wouldn’t make up for my drift…so let’s up the speed to 150 KIAS until the NDB.

From BAE to the NDB, we will hold a 233 heading to maintain course, a mere 82 degree Correction angle…making a ground speed of 102 kts.

Now we cross the NDB, turn outbound and slow her down to 120kias. To track outbound we will hold a 151 degree heading and make a groundspeed of 250kts.

Inbound, we will now fly a 258 heading and make a ground speed of 58 kts.

This is all after we managed to hold at the VOR without noticing the backward progression over the earth’s surface. “Approach N11238, do you still show us on your radar screen, or have to died and gone to Non-published hold hell?”

Prior to that you may have heard “N1234 Hold east of Badger VOR on the 270 radial, Expect Further clearance when you start moving.”

I think someone better get a urine sample to the lab before I post anymore hypothetical situations.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I think someone better get a urine sample to the lab before I post anymore hypothetical situations.

I would say that the major lesson here is that at typical lightplane speeds, staying within the protected area on a "normal" IAP is not that difficult.

If you're flying something with Cat D approach speeds nearing 160 knots, you have less margin, but it would still take nearly 40 knots of wind to push you outside of the 10 mile limit if you were totally ignorant of the wind.

That being said, I used to fly with a guy who not only couldn't stay within the 10 miles, he also only made it down to MDA about half the time before passing the MAP. It took several D-Cell Maglite-sized dents in the back of his head before he slowed down to appropriate speeds and increased his rate of descent past 500 fpm

Fly safe!

David