Travis Barker - 4 killed, 2 hurt as rock star's jet crashes

[Quimby]

Wonderful, what aircraft had Carbon Fiber Brakes, Delta Fins, and Eicas back then?

he got ya there!

 

[steve937]

CAUTION someone mentined how important tire pressure checking is. I agree! He also mentioned 180 PSI for a Lear 55 or 60... 180 PSI is too low (around 20% low)for a 60 main! and maybe reason to change both tires due to side wall over stress. Please check your AFM or AMM for the correct values before servicing! Also check you tires cold, not after moving the airplane from the fuel farm. Hot tires read high, don't adjust. The Goodyear 14 ply tires have weep holes in them for mfg or seating reasons. They do lose presure over time and new tires lose pressure for a week or so due to strecting. Ask you mec for a copy of the tire section in chpt 32-40-xx
Yea, I too have seen a few pilots kick a 14 ply tire to check it, I just shake my head.....

 

[GREAT LAKES]

USC PILOT,

Well said man. I love the 60, what great airplane!

My condolences go out to the families involved for their losses.........

RIP for a great crew.

Notapilots post was from the NTSB report for the Jerry Jones Lear 60 crash.
I believe that there was a mod put on later aircraft (there is a list of S-B's available, ask at recurrent) that allows both TR's to deploy with only one squat switch in ground mode. Ill see if I can find it. Nevertheless if they stowed uncommanded the FADEC should roll them back to idle and making the piggybacks useless.
Also keep in mind ground idle is 52% N2 which is not bad but air idle is 65% which gives you quite a push.
The standard brakes steel two rotor assemblies(later models including the one in question should have had the three rotor brakes).
It would have been possible to have brakes on only one wheel if a tire blew and caused a sq sw to fail to air. If the left inboard tire blew and failed the left squat switch to air then both out board brakes would be useless and the crew would only have normal brakes on the right inboard. The only way (other than emer handle) to regain toe brakes would be to turn the antiskid off. This would close the solonoid shutoff valves and allow brake pressure to the remaining three wheels, with out antiskid protection mind you. You have to be pretty on the ball to think of it though.
Concerning the earlier discussion of high/low speed aborts (this is only what I have seen and I am in no way being critical of these crew members) everyone always gives the "standard" brief. Nevertheless the vast majority will abort for AHS,ADC,PFD failures and so forth. Secondly you dont always know its a tire failure (no annunciator for it). What if it was a flight control issue. They had only seconds to decide. While most people would be ok taking off after 80/90 kts with a blown tire they would not with a flight controll malf. Going back to what I said earlier most people abort for anything and the whole "band,swerve,or bell" goes out the window as soon as something abnormal happens. Ultimatly the PIC's decision if the safety of the flight is in queston.
I am not second guessing the crew nor am a suggesting that anyone here is. We will never have all the facts. The best we can do is learn from this tragedy.
Some of the earlier posts were extreamly critical of the 60. To me its like an excentric uncle. I can make fun of him but if anyone else says anything they better watch their a$$. The 60 (as a lot of other planes I would assume) is a mix recent and ancient technology. Lets not forget that the basis for the lear came from that old fighter (what was it swiss or spanish I think) that Bill Lear got a hold of. Among other things the 60 had the old brakes (including antiskid), a modified verison of the wing, and a plug stuck in a 55 fuselage to make it longer. But up front it had fairly recent (in the case of the XR very recent) avionics, and in the back it of course had those wonderful PW305A'a with FADEC. No it would pass cert if it was put up for it today but that does not mean that it is unsafe. On the contrary it has been a very safe airplane. Like most aircraft it has its own idiosyncrasies that you have to nake yourself aware. While there have been accidents this was the first to include fatalities.
Fly Safe and RIP to the fallen crew.

 

[AviateYou]

CAUTION someone mentined how important tire pressure checking is. I agree! He also mentioned 180 PSI for a Lear 55 or 60... 180 PSI is too low (around 20% low)for a 60 main! and maybe reason to change both tires due to side wall over stress. Please check your AFM or AMM for the correct values before servicing! Also check you tires cold, not after moving the airplane from the fuel farm. Hot tires read high, don't adjust. The Goodyear 14 ply tires have weep holes in them for mfg or seating reasons. They do lose presure over time and new tires lose pressure for a week or so due to strecting. Ask you mec for a copy of the tire section in chpt 32-40-xx
Yea, I too have seen a few pilots kick a 14 ply tire to check it, I just shake my head.....

That's correct. Thank you. I did not say the tire pressures were the same - they varie with both aircraft as the 60 has a higher MTOW. Checked cold. The tires are the same application under Goodyears Aircraft Tire Website. So please make sure you get the Nitrogen pressures from the Learjet Service Manual from your Director of Maintenance or Maintenance Facility. The stretch check is to be completed at 24 hours per our 55 Learjet service manual for new tires. Nitrogen's positive attributes are that it's a larger gas molecule and that allows for a decrease over time in loss of pressure versus compressed air. Because no oxygen is present, Nitrogen is not conducive to corrosion. It has better thermodynamic characteristics and is less resistant to heat and cold expansion and deflation.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Any recent news come out? There should be a prelim soon, if not already

 

[ultrarunner]

Yes, the prelim is out. You can read it at ntsb.gov. Gives no new information.

 

[FlyingPieceOfSt]

Last time I checked drag chutes were very ineffective at low speeds. Deploying the drag chute immediatley after landing with a hydraulic or similar emergency is one thing that a drag chute works very effectively in reducing initial speed. Having a blowout of a tire and no brakes below a hundred knots and the aerodynamic drag that takes place before a pilot's cranium kicks into gear to deploy the chute is not going to save the day once deployed at those speeds.

My two cents.

 

[ableone]

Any high drag devise is more effective at high speeds.

I believe that drag effect decreases with speed at a four to one ratio.

I was taught that the lear and falcon drag chutes were not really worth deploying at speeds less than 80 or even 100 KIAS.

 

[AviateYou]

Any high drag devise is more effective at high speeds.

I believe that drag effect decreases with speed at a four to one ratio.

I was taught that the lear and falcon drag chutes were not really worth deploying at speeds less than 80 or even 100 KIAS.

The drag chute is effective from 150 KIAS to even below 60 KIAS per the Learjet 35/55 as per the Flight Safety Technical Manual Chapter Page 17-9.

 

[Papa Woody]

Drag shoot?

Shotgun!