Transition straight in to circling?

[flyownnav]

I'm looking for any legal documentation concerning a hypothetcial situation that arose during training in a sim the other day.
If you descend to straight in minimums on an approach with higher circling minimums and for some reason a circle is required are you authorized to climb to the circling minimums and execute the procedure?

 

[avbug]

If you are below circling minimums and then suddenly change your mind and elect to circle, theoretically you may continue on the inbound course, climb to circling MDA, and execute the circling maneuver.

In practice, if you're alread below minimums, you need to be going missed.

If you're going to circle ,then this needs to be a decision you make before you begin the approach, not at the time of arrival, and certainly not upon arrival below circling minimums.

You cannot leave the straight in course to begin the circling maneuver when below the circling MDA for your groundspeed.

If you need to go below circling minimums to get the field in site, why climb back up to them?

No consideration is given to an early turn on the missed approach proceedure, when at decision altitude; you are not gauranteed terrain separation. The same applies when attempting to circle below circling minimums.

 

[flyownnav]

Thanks
Everything you talked about is what I was trying very hard to get across. I guess I felt strongly enough about it that I was hoping for something to back it up, but why do we something to back up basic safe descision making.

 

[cvsfly]

Whose and what sim are you in. Circling maneuvers need to be well thought out before hand. In the commercial world specific approval needs to be given to authorize circling. Its not a maneuver that should be taken lightly. Go miss and set up again. What is the reason given for having to circle at the last minute? Wind shift? Call it windshear and take another look at it altitude and wait. I assume this is a flight school sim and not a major vendor like FSI. Poor procedure.

 

[flyownnav]

Exactly what I, the instructor, am teaching! But what I am looking for is any legal/regulatory issues related to this type of situation.
I believe our original situation had to do with poor descent planning on a non precision approach with varying cloud bases resulting in a position too high to make a normal descent to land.
When he's done here he moves on to a 767 sim so we can't risk any bad habits.

 

[igneousy2]

resulting in a position too high to make a normal descent to land.

That's your answer...you almost quoted the reg...you go missed.

Since he's in the heavy iron next, I checked on part 121...

121.651

(c) If a pilot has begun the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section and after that receives a later weather report indicating below-minimum conditions, the pilot may continue the approach to DH or MDA. Upon reaching DH or at MDA, and at any time before the missed approach point, the pilot may continue the approach below DH or MDA and touch down if --

(1) The aircraft is continuously in a position from which a descent to a landing on the intended runway can be made at a normal rate of descent using normal maneuvers, and where that descent rate will allow touchdown to occur within the touchdown zone of the runway of intended landing;

I would say that if you are below circling MDA you are not in a normal position to land on your intended runway.

When you are taking a checkride it is a bust if you descend below your circling MDA before you have to. Generally base leg. This situation sounds far worse.

If your student is going to an airline I would also bet paychecks (mines very small) that most line captains would bust a blood vessel in their neck if you tried this in their 767. If you are flying a heavy, it is not an easy/normal thing to climb in your landing configuration, it's going to take a lot of power just to get the airplane climbing again with all the crap hanging out. Extremely unstable, second reason to go missed.

Later

 

[Swerpipe]

With tower get authorization, in class G report

I'm looking for any legal documentation concerning a hypothetcial situation that arose during training in a sim the other day.
If you descend to straight in minimums on an approach with higher circling minimums and for some reason a circle is required are you authorized to climb to the circling minimums and execute the procedure?

If you are landing at a towered field, get authorization for the circle and landing for the intended runway from the tower. You must climb to the appropriate circling minimum as depicted on the approach plate prior to circling. You should decide on whether or not to circle prior to comencing the approach but there are other factors affecting your ability to continue the approach and land on the straight-in runway which may make you change your mind:

1)tailwind may have gone above 10 knots (the limit for a large number of aircraft)
2)crosswind component may have increased above a certain threshold and that value may be different for a wet, iced or dry runway making the other longer/wider runway preferable
3)the runway conditions are not acceptable: runway contamination, standing water, ice on the runway coupled with runway length, debris,etc...
4)there may be fog obscuring the approach end of the particular runway while the other runway is in the clear

At an uncontrolled field, just announcing your intentions is sufficient. Just make sure that you are circling on the side consistent with the traffic pattern applicable to the particular runway to be compliant with noise abatement, not intruding adjacent airpace, etc...It is also likely at an uncontrolled field that you may circle no matter what to observe the runway conditions and decide on the landing runway while you circle, even after coming straight-in. Many airports have the instrument approach procedure servicing the shortest runway and sometimes that is a factor in selecting a runway once the field in in sight.

In a two pilot cockpit, we brief what we are going to do if we land straight in and/or what if we decide to circle past the FAF if applicable. The reason for changing has to do with conditions that are dynamic or are not known until the field is in sight or you are talking to tower. The information you have for the airport is often provided by ATIS and could be up to an hour old. For instance, ATIS may state that aircraft are circling East to the opposite runway you are approaching but once on tower you may find out the tailwind component is only 5 knots and decide to land straight in or vice-versa. If you have not come up with a plan other than straight in then execute the missed approach and come back.

For training in a sim, circling maneuvers are only "approved" at certain airports and only for certain runways on certain types of sims. The only two that I've seen is at Memphis(one of the South runways) and Kennedy for only 1 runway (one of the Noth-west pointing runways) at each airport. So, I would guess at whatever sim you were, if not able to land straight-in you would execute the missed approach.

Most Part 121 operators require weather to be 1000-3 to circle and then use 1000 HAA or MDA whichever is higher. So, for a 767 type ride you may circle at the charts MDA but for a line check you would circle probably at a higher minimum.

 

[GetMyCoffee]

Just a note. There are situations that would warrant the initial decision to proceed straight in, and you are still not in a position to make a normal descent to landing from the missed approach point. For example, the VOR 18 at CMI. The missed approach point is well down the runway. If you broke out at minimums at the missed approach point on this approach it is nearly impossible to make a normal and safe descent to the runway. In this case, the circling minimums happen to be the same at straight in minimums. The VOR 4 and VOR/DME 22 are similiar and the circling minimums are only 20 and 60 feet in difference respectively. So you can be teaching proper decision making and still encounter a situation that changes at the last minute. Unlikely, but possible.

 

[Stepclimb]

Circling

Another note about circling.
TERPS does not provide for any secondary area outside of the lateral confines for each circling category. Also, the approach speed categories are based on indicated airspeed. A potentially dangerous situation could occur if you are circling at a high elevation field where your TAS is much greater than your IAS and you stray out of your circling protected airspace.
Example: One foot outside of the category A (90 Kias) 1.3 nm protected area and all bets are off as far as obstacles being above the circling MDA for that category. A wise thing to consider would be to use a higher category circling MDA for situations such as high pressure altitude or high winds.
-Stepclimb