Training event Legal question

[check six]

Assume a pilot is made a conditional offer of employment from a 121 carrier and invited to attend a training class. The pilot attends the training class for 3 weeks, ( regs, company ops, systems, etc). After the end of the three weeks the pilot has satisfactorally completed all testing but determines for personal reasons that he is not ready to continue on with the training and resigns.

If at some time in the future the pilot decides to apply for a pilot position with a 121 carrier, is that person required to report that training event and resignation to the prospective employer?

If he is required to report the event, is there a time limit (say 5 years) at which the reporting requirement goes away?

Thanks,
Check Six

 

[rondo]

I'd imagine that would come up in the PRIA.

 

[FL000]

I don't know if you'd be required to report it, but if you don't report that job to the next potential employer, they might ask you about the gap in your work history. I've seen employers request explanations for gaps as short as 2 weeks, though I think most are 30 days.

 

[GogglesPisano]

You were definitely employed if you received a paycheck/W2.

The "training event" is another issue. Contact an aviation attorney, or ALPA.

 

[avbug]

Advisory Circular AC 120-68D provides that among the PRIA items that must be reported by a previous 121 carrier are results of any drug/alcohol tests, and training records.

If an individual took a drug test at a previous carrier and underwent training there, he must report it if it took place within the previous five years.

You can obtain the Advisory Circular at: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...25738E0071DFED?OpenDocument&Highlight=120-68d

Something that not many know or understand about PRIA is that it applies to the initial hire and training of the pilot. If a pilot has been furloughed and then recalled, training records and other records pertaining to that pilot no longer are covered by PRIA. The advisory circular spells this out. It's a potentially big problem, and loophole, with the PRIA system.

The same side of that coin, however, means that if one has undergone the initial company training and drug testing, one is certainly covered by the PRIA act, and must report that training. The employer with whom that training is done is required to maintain the records for five years, at a minimum, regardless of any other record keeping requirements (Such as 121 or 135, which have a requirement of a shorter duration).

The question arises as to whether the pilot who underwent the training, but never flew the line, was "hired." AC 120-68D addresses that by definition:

(1) Hired and Employed. For all practical purposes under PRIA, the terms “hired” and “employed” both refer to that point in time when a pilot has been offered, and has accepted, a position as a pilot with an operator. Under the drug and alcohol testing regulations, “hire” is defined as “retaining an individual for a safety-sensitive function as a paid employee, as a volunteer, or through barter or other form of compensation” (see part 121, appendix I, and appendix J)

The FAA guidance on the topic is found in FAA Order 8000.88. You can view a copy of this at: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...1C3B938785AFECC286257139006AF7B5?OpenDocument

The Order above defines "hired" as the following, similiar to the AC, but slightly expanded (the emphasis is mine):

a. Hired and Employed. For all practical purposes under PRIA, the terms hired and employed both refer to that point in time when a pilot has been offered, and has accepted, a position as a pilot with an air carrier. Whether a pilot has begun training, completed training, or has already been released to begin service as a pilot, has no bearing on the definition of hired or employed. Both terms are interpreted to have the same meaning.

The Order, in agreement with the PRIA act and the Advisory Circular, defines who must provide the records and requests (prospective employers, previous employers, and prospective employees), and defines the pilot's role as:

(3) Any individual who is applying for a position as a pilot with an air carrier and has been employed as a pilot of a civil or public aircraft at any time during the 5-year period preceding the date of the employment application.

Whereas this applies to any person who has been employed as a pilot, and the definition of hired as a pilot includes accepting the offer, the a pilot who has accepted the offer and come to training (even if never flying the line or completing training) will become obligated to report that training in future PRIA requests.

Furthermore, from the explaination section of the FAA Form 8060-11, which is provided to request records from former employers, the following is found (again, emphasis mine):

1. Part I – Records Request. Part I is used by the hiring air carrier or other person to request certain pilot records as maintained by any air carrier or other person that has employed the individual as a pilot at any time during the 5-year period preceding the date on the employment applicant of the individual, or from the trustee in bankruptcy for such air carrier or other person. The records that must be provided are identified and referenced in 49 U.S.C. § 44703(h)(1)(B).

The exception to prior employers who must be reported, and report, are those not covered by parts 121, 125, or 135, or defined as operators under Part 119. One exception to that is anyone involved in a tour operation, including Part 91 operators, must still participate in the PRIA program.

Another important aspect of PRIA is that the responsibility for making the requests lies with the hiring operator. If Pilot X applies to Bubbah Airways, it's the responsibility of Bubbah Airways to submit the PRIA requests. Pilot X has an obligation to make a full disclosure of previous employment, but the legal responsibility rests with Bubbah Airways to make the requests, verify the results, and retain the records (and discuss any discrepancies found, with Pilot X).

If Pilot X fails to notify Bubbah Airways of previous training, and subsequently that isn't included in the scope of the PRIA investigation, then Pilot X places Bubbah Airways in jeopardy if this oversight is found. It's also good grounds for his own termination for failing to provide a full disclosure, though the civil penalties and enforcement of the Prior Records Improvement Act will come down on Bubbah Airways.

As always, and as another poster noted, where such questions arise, consultation with an attorney is always well advised.

 

[jmreii]

Assume a pilot is made a conditional offer of employment from a 121 carrier and invited to attend a training class. The pilot attends the training class for 3 weeks, ( regs, company ops, systems, etc). After the end of the three weeks the pilot has satisfactorally completed all testing but determines for personal reasons that he is not ready to continue on with the training and resigns.

If at some time in the future the pilot decides to apply for a pilot position with a 121 carrier, is that person required to report that training event and resignation to the prospective employer?

If he is required to report the event, is there a time limit (say 5 years) at which the reporting requirement goes away?

Thanks,
Check Six

Let me make it easy for you to understand! If you were in a initial or training class and did not complete training for any reason, example: 7 years from application date, it would not be reportable under PRIA situation because of the 5 year limit of the law for the applicant(you) and the (company) you were training under. Many companies will ask in the application, have you ever failed to complete any training program. That is different from a PRIA. I hope this helps.

 

[avbug]

I'm not sure I understand your explanation made easy. What has seven years go to do with the price of tea in china? The original poster never asked about a training event outside the scope of the PRIA investigation...which makes your reply not only hard to understand, but irrelevant.

Typing in bold doesn't make it easier to understand, either.

 

[jmreii]

I'm not sure I understand your explanation made easy. What has seven years go to do with the price of tea in china? The original poster never asked about a training event outside the scope of the PRIA investigation...which makes your reply not only hard to understand, but irrelevant.

Typing in bold doesn't make it easier to understand, either.

Inside of 5 years it needs to be reported, outside of 5 years I would not worry about it.

 

[nismo611]

Advisory Circular AC 120-68D provides that among the PRIA items that must be reported by a previous 121 carrier are results of any drug/alcohol tests, and training records.

If an individual took a drug test at a previous carrier and underwent training there, he must report it if it took place within the previous five years.

You can obtain the Advisory Circular at: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...25738E0071DFED?OpenDocument&Highlight=120-68d

avbug do you think when you get drug tested that your MAOI's, anti depressants, and other mood stabilizers show up?