Timing your exit

[AlbieF15]

I've helped a few bros make the transition to the exits over the last couple years, and thought I'd share my 2 cents on some suggestions. Watching a bro make some (what I consider) mistakes I decided rather than venting to him I'd throw some shots out into cyberspace.

Rule one--start early! For you no-civ rating/no civ logbook types, here is a conservative guide. Yes...you can jump through your butt and try to do it all 90 days from your retirement/sep date, but even if you get a class date when you get out (not likely) you will at least be suffering a lot more stress than necessary.

Network--3 YEARS out. Keep a list of bros at the airlines. Send those Christmas cards...and emails. Visit. Ask about the lifestyle. Learn. Listen.

2 years-18 months out. Get the ATP. Now. Its less than 2 grand, and you KNOW you have to have it. Why are you still waiting? Turn you trip to the FBO or ALL ATPs into a family vacation if you must, but stop stalling. Apply to EVERYONE that is accepting apps. Don't get picky now...get picky when you have 2-3 offers. You may be from INDY, but if ATA ain't hiring when you separate you'll feel stupid for not applying to SWA or Fedex. JetBlue may be your first choice, but would you pass a year on the line at SWA to wait?

Need an online rec? Email and ask bros for support. Don't ask for ID numbers or other info from insiders...instead ask your bros to send THEM (those insiders) your email, so the person inside may contact YOU at their descretion. Most folks will gladly help you, but they'd prefer to initiate the process rather than being put "on the spot". I've never turned down a request for help, but the courtesy is always appreciated.

18months- 1 year out. Get the FE written. Don't want to work at FDX or UPS? Do it anyway...things may change. You can buy the book, study a week, and pay 50 bucks to take the test at a test center. It is cheap insurance.

1 year-6 months out...update your resume. Put a professional message on your home machine. Get a nice email ([email protected], etc) but ([email protected]) or ([email protected]).

Save some leave. You may need it for a job fair, or to visit a company at the invitation of someone already on the property.

Lose the attachment to holidays, special occasions, etc. Don't skip a May interview for a vacation, or a June shot for an (optional) TDY. Go to the first interview offered (you should be ready by now). Ditto the first class offered. One guy at FDX skipped a class for his wedding. He spent his honeymoon, plus the next 20 month, waiting without a FDX job in the pool. Cost? 2 years of longevity, health insurance, and a myriad of other benefits. Both AirTran and FDX have a habit of cancelling/delaying classes, so deciding the "next" one would be a better fit might haunt you a long time.

What about that retirement you planned for June 10? Airline X offered you a June 2 class. You told Wing/Squadron you'd be there through the ORI, and your retirement ceremony invites are already out.... My take: 2 weeks after you leave the base, nobody will even be mentioning your name. The ORI is history, your party is old news, and nobody cares. However, for the next 17 years, you are 10-24 numbers junior to some guys because you didn't want to "inconvenience" a group of guys who really don't even care that much about what happens after you leave. That may mean the difference in getting your domicile, your upgrade, or the "cherry" line you have been trying to get since you got on the property. It might also mean the difference in being furloughed if things turned south...

If asking for a letter of rec, I recommend writing a draft of a letter and then emailing or giving a copy of disc to person you want to write it. Now they can either personalize it or re-write it, but they aren't knee deep in having to write YOU a product on their busy schedule. Real compensation for a major airline pilot is pretty high per hour...think about what your bill would be if they were "billing" you for their time. Make their job easy.

Diet...1 year out. 6 week crash diets will only have you stressed, hungry, and p!ssed off when you show up. Get your suit fitted but leave a little "slack" for a 5 pound rebound.

Suits, shirts, shoes, ties....3-6 months out. Wear them a few times...get used to standing up in a suit (vice flightsuit) and make sure those new shoes don't squeak when you walk down the quiet hall.

Want interview prep? Great! Call early. Don't call 24 hours prior and say "I heard you can help out..." (real story x 3 Jetblue sessions...) You should be ready to go 2-3 months out....done...ready...excited. Save the last minute flailing for your competition.

Just my thoughts...any veterans got some other lessons learned?

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Right on... AlbieF15! I've got some friends (still on active duty) in the same shoes. I love those bros but many of them are "over confident" with their credentials, for the lack of a better term. My .02...... be humble and get the ball rolling early like AlbieF15 said. At this stage of the game, the airlines know you have the credentials (ie. hours, career progression, airmanship, etc.). From my experience, the airlines don't give a rat's a$$ if you were chief of stan eval or a just line pilot. By all means, those things can't hurt, but if you've got the turbine PIC hours, you should be golden. Most of them want to find out if they can spend a few hours with you in a confined space, say..... a cockpit. I've got good bud who didn't get his ATP, decided to get out and do the guard gig. He only applied to one guard unit, because that was the only place he wanted to live. Well, he obviously didn't get picked up by the airlines and the guard unit didn't hire him. He had 3,200 hours PIC (all trainer and fighter time, stan eval, etc.). Needless to say, he's still on active duty not by choice.
In this day and age where airline jobs are far and few in between, extra effort and a little bit of a$$ kissing/networking is a must. As they say, one must have their $hit together and that $hit cannot be loose! Good luck to all. Sorry guys/gals.... I didn't mean to get on the soap box.

 

[Kingwood]

Albie-

Good points but disagree with timing of your departure...nothing wrong with service before self on your way out the door...there is honor in helping your AD bro's...besides, never know when you'll need that old boss endorsement again...have recieved calls on guys furloughed from airline X interviewing with airline Y...easy call for the drivers who gave their all to the end...wringing over seniority will only give you ulcers...

Yesmen-

Check your PMs

 

[AlbieF15]

Kingwood,

Agree with your big picture. However...moving your retirement part a week or two so you can make an earlier class makes sense to me IF you are anxious to get started on your new career. I had a client who felt reluctant to change his date as he had told his Wing Commander he wanted his party on xx day. What harm is a minor adjustment? Does the Wing CC really care that much?

You and I both know service above self is relative. If you are flying caps over bad-guy land so your bros can sleep safely, that is one thing. Getting stuck in a squadron (especially a training squadron or a staff job) prepping for an ORI or exercise for the umpteenth time in 20+ years of service passing on a class in another. At what point can you say "I've given enough...I want to take care of my family" without becoming quitter/traitor/ratb@stard?

In my squadron, the lastest "service above self" effort is a Wing Dining In. Wing is actually emailing around stats (squadron A has 30/40, or 75%, squadron B has 40/50, or 80%, etc) on email pressuring CCs to "get their troops out..." At that point, do you really think your CC wants you to "share in the comraderie of warriors" at the event, or is he just trying to best another squadron boss so in 4 years he can send out a similar email as a Wing CC himself?

Bottom line is there is a transition point in everyone's career when it is time to leave and put yourself ahead of the needs of the service. I agree...until THAT DAY you give 100%. But c'mon...asking the boss for an extra week off that you've EARNED with over 20 years of service so you can have some perks for the next 17-19 years doesn't seem like much to ask. If someone is going to hold that over my head as being "self serving", well...I question THEIR motivations.

As long as I'm on a rant, I'll also throw this out. I spent all but 4 years of my active duty in a combat coded unit, or 10 straight years. I deployed to Combat for Desert Storm, and went back for various No Fly Zone duties in every subsequent tour--sometimes more than once. I also deployed to Asia for a non-flying exercise as individual augmentee to a command staff. During that time, there were guys with 20+ years of service who had deployed less and spent less time in front line units...they were on staff, school, training, or training squadrons. While an officer is not always in charge of where he is stationed or where his career leads, I used to openly scoff some of the self-righteous senior officers who got "holier than thou" when discussing careers, or worse putting down the ANG units. That burned out 10 year captain who just jumped ship may have been away from family over 3-4 years during the period! A guy who was a first assignment IP, then a fighter pilot for 2 years 8 months, then an FTU IP, then school, staff, and now an FTU DO/CC has a had a whopping 3 years of combat exposure. Conversely, that average captain on his 2nd ops tour after an ALO tour has been in harms way continuously for almost 10 years. Ditto the ANG bros...they may be Delta or FedEx pilots, but it seems like everytime I was hearing codewords for "SA-3 active!" or "Foxbat at Al Asad" there was a Guard guy or two in the package somewhere pulling his weight. Went to Turkey for OPC in 95....there was Bama, Syracuse, and Buckely doing their thing. Went back in 97...wow...guess who's back...same ANG bros. Those "quitters" were getting shot at while some guys polished their Air War College apps.

My take--I have stayed current and qual'd in my jet. The AF knows where I am if they need me. I'll be here if things get ugly (along with a bunch more like me--only better!). However--if you ask me to show up to make someone else look good to get promoted or to show how "loyal" I really am...well...I've got a family to take care of, too. I'm still about service above self...but sometimes that service is to my family, my church, and my community.

Just my 2 cents. Been wrong before...will be again...

 

[milplt]

Service before self

I'm with Albie on this one. I think many forget that this selfless thing should be a two way street. What do I mean? How about a thanks for your years of service - and if that thanks is in the form of pushing things up a week, then so be it. How about the case of a guy in my squadron that had a full-time job with a guard unit and had a firm (sts) RTU date. The only problem was that he needed to Palace Chase about 6 months prior to his ADSC to make it happen. The Sq CC and OG/CC said no thanks, we really need you here. REALLY? Isn't the military about looking out for your bro? Shouldn't we have had no problem picking up the extra load (of which their would have really been no appreciable increase) so he can make this one-time opportunity happen. So long job for the next how many years because the leadership was concerned about the next 6 months. I really have a problem with that phone call comment - what do you mean easy call - after he/she leaves, are you commenting about the 10/15/20 years of service that he gave or the last 2 weeks that he asked for a little flexibility on. Sounds typical. Do all that the leadership asks from you but don't ask for an ounce of flexibility from the leadership. Just like the CC that gets upset when you want to take your two weeks of post-mission pilot rest after a 75 day deployment. Like Albie, I did all but my last tour in combat-coded units. For my first 4 years, because I was always volunteering to participate, I averaged 240 days away from home a year (and the AF gave me an overseas tour ribbon for it). The only reason I spent my last tour in AETC is becasue the assignment gurus made me. Bottom line is that while I was AD, I was AD - but eventually I started planning my transition out. When I set up my sep. date, my Sq CC was upset and tried to get AFPC to extend my ADSC on some technicality - of course he told me it wasn't personal, he had to think of the AF first. We can't all plan the perfect transition and sometimes dates slide - how about a little help for all those years of service (Not to mention that most of us are staying in the military as Guard/Reserve anyway - of course to my CC that still made me a quitter). Then again, that kick in the a$$ on the way out the door may just be the military's way of reinforcing the fact that you made the right decision on separating from AD.

 

[Kingwood]

Albie-

Your first paragraph was spot on....and I guess you would have ended it there if I would've said my thoughts assumed your boss was not a douchbag...thankfully I see great commanders leading from the front (at least in the fighter world) across the CAF. I am not naive to think the occasional weasel doesn't sneak in

Disappointed to hear your current situation in the FANG...but man you sure have a stable of incredible drivers there...

Milplt-

You are correct ref the two way street...loyalty goes both ways...there are leaders out there who will work their arse off to help you in your transition whether after 10yrs, 15, or 30...sorry you ended AD with a d@ckhead.

Kingwood

 

[AlbieF15]

Bumping to add some new thoughts...see other thread.

 

[Beaker]

Bump

Albie

This post was enormously useful for me and others I have shared the info with. Thanks for your help. I thought a bump might get it noticed and help somebody else.

Beaker

 

[AlbieF15]

Wow..has it been 3 years already since I wrote that?

Airlines currently hiring have changed--but I stand by the overall guidance...

Good luck to everyone.

 

[instructordude]

Man I'm sweating it Albie, she called last night and said she is 7 days late. So much for planning my exit!:laugh: