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Time to get out.

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PunchTheClown

STOP MAD COWBOY DISEASE
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Posts
235
Alright, I've given this a lot of thought. Its time for me to leave this industry. This career has turned into the equivlent of a dead end job and its not worth it for me anymore.

I know many of you do other things instead or in addition to flying. All I have done ever is fly, my whole career path has been based on it. So I'm asking for some ideas of what some of you have done. I've got a baby on the way and there is no way to support a child on FO wages at a regional, especially when you work for a company where isnt and never will be an upgrade. Its sickening to me to think that an entry level TSA screener makes more then I do!

Thanks!

Punch
 
Check out USAjobs.gov and look for investigator jobs. Federal investigator. Pay is livable, you can transfer between agencies if you think you can find a better deal. You never have to walk through security again when travelling. Plus some agencies are going to need pilots and like their pilots to have a few years investigation under their belt.

FWIW
 
PunchTheClown said:
Alright, I've given this a lot of thought. Its time for me to leave this industry. This career has turned into the equivlent of a dead end job and its not worth it for me anymore.

I know many of you do other things instead or in addition to flying. All I have done ever is fly, my whole career path has been based on it. So I'm asking for some ideas of what some of you have done. I've got a baby on the way and there is no way to support a child on FO wages at a regional, especially when you work for a company where isnt and never will be an upgrade. Its sickening to me to think that an entry level TSA screener makes more then I do!

Thanks!

Punch

Best of luck to ya man! I definetly feel your pain with 2 kids to support 100%. Have you considered net jets? Their pay is livable and they are growing like crazy. I am considering it myself.
 
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Try NGA - National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. It's a government agency that hires alot of ex pilots/ atc/ and other aviation backgrounds. I worked there for a bit - starting pay in the mid to high $40s and as secure as a gov't job can be.

Good luck! I've been thinking/trying to get out of flying for the past 4 years - and still looking for the right move.
 
Well, from your past posts, you are an idiot and you probably will not find anything on the outside you won't whine about, so have you considered going into politics?--as a democratic stratigist that is.
 
PunchTheClown said:
Alright, I've given this a lot of thought. Its time for me to leave this industry. This career has turned into the equivlent of a dead end job and its not worth it for me anymore.

I know many of you do other things instead or in addition to flying. All I have done ever is fly, my whole career path has been based on it. So I'm asking for some ideas of what some of you have done. I've got a baby on the way and there is no way to support a child on FO wages at a regional, especially when you work for a company where isnt and never will be an upgrade. Its sickening to me to think that an entry level TSA screener makes more then I do!

Thanks!

Punch

Well I guess your pilot group did show some balls. Why not join Management at your airline and then try and get your pilot group the pay you think they deserve. Let us know how it goes.
 
Does your wife have a career that she can go back to? Maybe you could be Mr. Mom and she could work.
 
I think a lot of pilots should be thinking the same thing. When crude is over $100 per barrel the airlines will have to start trimming their routes and another round of layoffs will begin.

We are about to enter the perfect storm: Chavez is a complete nut, oil from Venezuela is questionable, I don't buy gas from Citgo for that very reason. BP's Alaska oil line is at 50%. Oil from Iran is being held up for ransom while Iran builds their nukes. All signs point to much higher oil prices, even SWA can't hedge for the coming storms.

This board should include an alternate income forum to give each other ideas.
 
Every time this subject comes up I think of that old WKRP in Cincinatti episode where Johhny Fever tells Venus Flytrap that he is getting burnt out on radio and wants to change careers. Venus says to him something along the lines of "oh, well lets see, you're qualified for many things, you could be a rocket scientist, oh, no, wait a minute, a brain surgeon......."

People sometimes wonder why I am 38 and never married, I don't even start, it would take to long to explain what a civilian pilot has to go through to get anywhere in this business.

We've all been through this to one degree or another. Some of us are still around, some aren't.
 
PunchTheClown said:
Its sickening to me to think that an entry level TSA screener makes more then I do!

I'm not trying to be a smart*ss here but seriously, the TSA can't be that bad of a gig can it? It's a federal job, with federal bennies, nothing wrong with that.

I think anything associated with the government is a safer bet than the private sector in aviation these days. Heck our government is the only employer I know of that doesn't have to pay its bills, yet still has to pay its employees.

Also how bout something within the FAA itself. As sickening as that sounds, those jobs really are pretty decent jobs if you can stand all the bureaucracy.
 
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I do not understand your post. Are you asking for suggestions on what career to get into? If that is the case you are screwed.

Is that how you got into aviation? Someone tell you it would be cool to be a pilot?
 
Wait, I've got it, how about Alaskan Crab fisherman. It looked so easy on that show..............
 
PM me. I might have a lead on a type of `CROP' dusting operaiton overseas that pays well with minimum management BS.

P.S - it's turbine OV1 Bronco stuff
 
To all of you that have had serious responses, thank you. And to those of you who havent had serious responeses. . . . I thank god I never had to fly with any of you.
 
Whataburger said:
Be a weather man. You can be wrong 75% of the time and hang out with the hot chicks on the WX Channel.

Or be an economist. Then you can be wrong 100% of the time, blame "market forces," and hang out with the hot chicks on CNBC.
 
PunchTheClown said:
To all of you that have had serious responses, thank you.

Exactly!

Good luck to PunchTheClown.

He's had enough and he's getting out. I doubt there are very many actual working pilots who don't think about it occasionally or even every friggin' day! I know I do. But I have allready made my decision to hang in there and see if I can make it to the next level. Maybe it's all the effort and time I've invested allready. While I do, I'll enjoy every moment I can. No sense in continuing if I don't.

This guy just decided that the regional thing was not the right thing for him to do any more. It's a personal decision based on what he believes is most important in his life. Therefore, for him, it is the right decision right now. He may even change his mind and come back later if things improve. The flying life is not for everybody, especially when times are tough, as they are for a great many these days. For many, it may have something to do with one's original expectations when compared to the present realities.

So I wish the best of success to all the departing pilots. (and there are many) Those of us able to remain will soldier on, always looking ahead toward a better day, while making the most we can of today. Success in aviation, as in life, is measured over decades, not mere months or even years. It's better for some to get out sooner, rather than later. That way, there's more time to build a new life on the ground.

Best of success to all of us, whatever we choose.
 
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charter dog said:
Exactly!

Good luck to PunchTheClown.

He's had enough and he's getting out. I doubt there are very many actual working pilots who don't think about it occasionally or even every friggin' day! I know I do. But I have allready made my decision to hang in there and see if I can make it to the next level. Maybe it's all the effort and time I've invested allready. While I do, I'll enjoy every moment I can. No sense in continuing if I don't.

This guy just decided that the regional thing was not the right thing for him to do any more. It's a personal decision based on what he believes is most important in his life. Therefore, for him, it is the right decision right now. He may even change his mind and come back later if things improve. The flying life is not for everybody, especially when times are tough, as they are for a great many these days. For many, it may have something to do with one's original expectations when compared to the present realities.

So I wish the best of success to all the departing pilots. (and there are many) Those of us able to remain will soldier on, always looking ahead toward a better day, while making the most we can of today. Success in aviation, as in life, is measured over decades, not mere months or even years. It's better for some to get out sooner, rather than later. That way, there's more time to build a new life on the ground.

Best of success to all of us, whatever we choose.

Best post I ever read! :beer:
 
PunchTheClown said:
Alright, I've given this a lot of thought. Its time for me to leave this industry. This career has turned into the equivlent of a dead end job and its not worth it for me anymore.

I know many of you do other things instead or in addition to flying. All I have done ever is fly, my whole career path has been based on it. So I'm asking for some ideas of what some of you have done. I've got a baby on the way and there is no way to support a child on FO wages at a regional, especially when you work for a company where isnt and never will be an upgrade. Its sickening to me to think that an entry level TSA screener makes more then I do!

Thanks!

Punch

Good Luck. I plan to retire with my company. If something happens to my company or my job, I will not seek employment in aviation again. But I will not ask people on a forum what I should do if that should happen. Only I can say what is the right or wrong job for me.
Others that have left the industry and are still on this board have done things that are right for them. Some may own a franchise or may even work in graphic design. If you are looking for $$$ now I doubt you have the cash required to buy into a franchise. Do you have graphic design skills? I hope you see my point. Unless you have a more specific question, only you know what your skills and talents are. Others cant tell you what you should be doing.

Whatever you do, again I say good luck to you. And remember that baby on the way will be the most important little guy/girl in your life. Everything else has a way of working out.
 
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Whataburger said:
Be a weather man. You can be wrong 75% of the time and hang out with the hot chicks on the WX Channel.

hot chicks, be wrong 75% of the time AND not worry about losing your job for it!? what a gig :D
 
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PunchTheClown said:
Alright, I've given this a lot of thought. Its time for me to leave this industry. This career has turned into the equivlent of a dead end job and its not worth it for me anymore.

Really??? Maybe you made a bad choice. It's not that way at "my house". We've got lots of growth, new hires like crazy, upgrades, full sims and classrooms, new airplanes coming and most important, cost control and profits !!!

I am very thankful for that and a pretty smart management team.

Good luck with your next choice.

Tejas
 
If you're young enough, join the military. Good health bennies, you get to fly alot, and you'll see the rest of the world.

Until pilots at the regional/LCC carriers stand up and demand that the lowest paid pilot in the industry will be paid at least what the lowest paid TSA worker is getting we will continue on the downward spiral in the industry.

This kind of thread shouldn't really be that surprising to anyone who has watched the industry over that past 10 years. When a majority of the pilots being hired at the majors were from the military, companies couldn't get away with paying guys/gals 20k a year. Why???? Because a large majority of those guys were married, had kids, and had been making way more money that 20-25k and wouldn't even think twice about taking a job for that kind of money. The civilian guys at the time, cut thier teeth in the corporate and small cargo world for the most part in the hopes of getting on with major eventually. But the numbers were skewed and the majority of the pilots wouldn't entertain working for so little money.

In the early 1990's two things happened, 1) the military cut back on the amount of pilots it was training and raised the time commitment required after flight training, but even more importantly, there was a large increase in the number of college programs that began churning out a large number of young, single, stary eyed pilots, who were willing to work at well below industry norm wages in order to build their time and eventually land the dream job. The problem is that the dream job...really no longer exists.

It's all supply and demand, with a steady state of workers willing to work for less, the regional airlines began booming. Throw in modern ERJ type aircraft and guys were even more willing to work for less, just to be able to fly awesome equipment.....Sept 11th added a whole new group of people into the mix that were willing to fly for less just to survive.

The bottom line is that I suspect that Punch began as a young single guy, got married and is now having a kid...all of a sudden is realizing that with the regionals undercutting all of the majors and the majors competing by lowering the bar, that there is little, if no upward mobility left in the industry, and can't support his family on what he is getting paid. I could be wrong about punch in particular, but the industry trends in general are pretty easy to spot.

As long as we keep pumping out 22 year old kids who are willing to fly for much less than a TSA screener makes, there will be little or no upward mobility for pilots in terms of progression (especially if age 65 kicks in) or pay and it shouldn't be a surprise to see lots of pilots in their late 20's/early 30's getting fed up and leaving the industry. It's all very simple economics, and until something changes the paradigm, it's going to be very bleak.

Good luck though, it's never easy making a huge career change especially when throwing a new kid into the mix. You might want to think about flying cargo....you won't be sleeping at night anyways.

EP
 
...number of college programs that began churning out a large number of young, single, stary eyed pilots, who were willing to work...

Is that like a stigmatism?

While I agree with some of your points, I don't think the 22 year old college grads are the ones who created the low-paying regional jobs or decided they would undercut the majors. Every trade out there has entry-level jobs, some are just better than others. Has ending my chase for my lifetime dream ever crossed my mind due to the current mess? Hello yeah. The dream jobs are still there (at least today), and until someone tells me that there are no more 747s, 777s, 767s, etc. flying or that they are all being flown by robots, I will continue my quest to make it there. I know it's not the same industry as it once was, but most industries aren't. My 2 lincolns.
 
brainhurts said:
Well, from your past posts, you are an idiot and you probably will not find anything on the outside you won't whine about, so have you considered going into politics?--as a democratic stratigist that is.

If you are going to call someone an idiot atleast make sure your grammar/spelling is correct.
 
charter dog said:
Exactly!

Good luck to PunchTheClown.

He's had enough and he's getting out. I doubt there are very many actual working pilots who don't think about it occasionally or even every friggin' day! I know I do. But I have allready made my decision to hang in there and see if I can make it to the next level. Maybe it's all the effort and time I've invested allready. While I do, I'll enjoy every moment I can. No sense in continuing if I don't.

This guy just decided that the regional thing was not the right thing for him to do any more. It's a personal decision based on what he believes is most important in his life. Therefore, for him, it is the right decision right now. He may even change his mind and come back later if things improve. The flying life is not for everybody, especially when times are tough, as they are for a great many these days. For many, it may have something to do with one's original expectations when compared to the present realities.

So I wish the best of success to all the departing pilots. (and there are many) Those of us able to remain will soldier on, always looking ahead toward a better day, while making the most we can of today. Success in aviation, as in life, is measured over decades, not mere months or even years. It's better for some to get out sooner, rather than later. That way, there's more time to build a new life on the ground.

Best of success to all of us, whatever we choose.



spot on....
 
tomcat said:
...number of college programs that began churning out a large number of young, single, stary eyed pilots, who were willing to work...

Is that like a stigmatism?

While I agree with some of your points, I don't think the 22 year old college grads are the ones who created the low-paying regional jobs or decided they would undercut the majors. Every trade out there has entry-level jobs, some are just better than others.
I am aquainted with a young man with a whopping 500 TT that has just gone to Hojets in STL. He researched the scene and figured that this was the quickest way he could get what he wanted next in spite of warnings about the professional dangers that this posed to him and the industry. He just wanted what he wanted and screw everyone else. People like him are an integral part of the problem.

I encourage everyone that is working at surviving companies that are still worth working for will remember these Hojet guys when they come around looking for their next step up. These guys knowingly try going up the down escalator and slit the throats and step on the necks of those that get in their way. The next job that they will undercut could (will) be yours.
 
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El Pobre said:
If you're young enough, join the military. Good health bennies, you get to fly alot, and you'll see the rest of the world.

Until pilots at the regional/LCC carriers stand up and demand that the lowest paid pilot in the industry will be paid at least what the lowest paid TSA worker is getting we will continue on the downward spiral in the industry.

This kind of thread shouldn't really be that surprising to anyone who has watched the industry over that past 10 years. When a majority of the pilots being hired at the majors were from the military, companies couldn't get away with paying guys/gals 20k a year. Why???? Because a large majority of those guys were married, had kids, and had been making way more money that 20-25k and wouldn't even think twice about taking a job for that kind of money. The civilian guys at the time, cut thier teeth in the corporate and small cargo world for the most part in the hopes of getting on with major eventually. But the numbers were skewed and the majority of the pilots wouldn't entertain working for so little money.

In the early 1990's two things happened, 1) the military cut back on the amount of pilots it was training and raised the time commitment required after flight training, but even more importantly, there was a large increase in the number of college programs that began churning out a large number of young, single, stary eyed pilots, who were willing to work at well below industry norm wages in order to build their time and eventually land the dream job. The problem is that the dream job...really no longer exists.

It's all supply and demand, with a steady state of workers willing to work for less, the regional airlines began booming. Throw in modern ERJ type aircraft and guys were even more willing to work for less, just to be able to fly awesome equipment.....Sept 11th added a whole new group of people into the mix that were willing to fly for less just to survive.

The bottom line is that I suspect that Punch began as a young single guy, got married and is now having a kid...all of a sudden is realizing that with the regionals undercutting all of the majors and the majors competing by lowering the bar, that there is little, if no upward mobility left in the industry, and can't support his family on what he is getting paid. I could be wrong about punch in particular, but the industry trends in general are pretty easy to spot.

As long as we keep pumping out 22 year old kids who are willing to fly for much less than a TSA screener makes, there will be little or no upward mobility for pilots in terms of progression (especially if age 65 kicks in) or pay and it shouldn't be a surprise to see lots of pilots in their late 20's/early 30's getting fed up and leaving the industry. It's all very simple economics, and until something changes the paradigm, it's going to be very bleak.

Good luck though, it's never easy making a huge career change especially when throwing a new kid into the mix. You might want to think about flying cargo....you won't be sleeping at night anyways.

EP

Actually I see it different. There were always entry level jobs with guys working for peanuts trying to break into the industry. Then those military guys thought they were too good for small 50 seat jets and gave up the scope which allowed all the regionals to flourish. The pay was never good at the regional level. The pilots at the majors just allowed the regionals to grow. It is kind of funny that you point your finger at us as creating the problem when it was your brother military pilots who were not willing to take a job flying barbie jets who allowed the regionals as we know it to be created.

And some regional pilot groups are working for better rules and pay. It takes a while. Southwest pilots didn't start with industry leading pay. Fedex wasn't always the leader of the pack in pay either.
 
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it would be great if we can come up with another term for guys like this that are flying at G0jets. there not exactly "scabs" but exactly the same moral character. any suggestions? how about calling them "wharts"!
 

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