Thrust reverser in the flair?

[hellas]

A couple of the "Senior" pilots in our growing flight dept. have gone ballistic and made it an issue to the chief pilot and now policy for us not to use the reverser's during the flair until the nose wheel is on the ground stating "reccomendation" from the Dee Howard thrust reverser manual, and this is the same as a limitation. How do other pilots and flight dept. see this.

 

[mavrck]

we are exactly the same way on the Citation II. No reverse til nose touchie.

 

[gear_guy]

A couple of the "Senior" pilots in our growing flight dept. have gone ballistic and made it an issue to the chief pilot.

Uhhh....as they should have. Think about it. What if only one TR deploys? I know for a fact that FSI teaches this as a no no. There is no doubt that this is dangerous. I have been in aircraft where captains did this. It is a very uncomfortable feeling. One time, only one bucket deployed. I had to push the yoke to get the nose down. It is a miracle that we did'nt end up in the grass that day. My theory is this.....If you want to look like a super-stud on your landings...go fly single-pilot fighters. But don't cop an attitude toward these "senior pilots" who are actually trying to improve safety. Feel lucky that you work somewhere that the pilots are concerned and proactive about safety. This facet of aviation is ruled by whatever is safest. If you can prove to me that it is safer to pull the piggies when the nose is still flyin...I'm all ears!

 

[satpak77]

uhhh

......stating "reccomendation" from the Dee Howard thrust reverser manual, and this is the same as a limitation

this should be a non-issue

either comply with POH/AD's/STC's/etc and aftermarket installed guidance and company ops specs or plan on paying for it somehow, career-wise or worse

flying is risky enought when ALL of the rules are followed. Now you want to "improve upon" things?

later

 

[splatt]

This should be a "know-brainer" ... Don't do it.

 

[SCT]

It's not a very good SOP because of the reasons stated by the other posts. I have also had a situation where only one TR deployed and if not for tiller authority, we would've been in the grass.

Also, I'm not sure about the II, but on a 560XL or X, that procedure would put the plane on it's tail if you didn't have forward pressure on the yoke with strong reverse thrust.
Like Mavrck said "No reverse til nose touchie"

 

[Gulfstream 200]

some dorks think its just real cool to roll down the runway doing a wheelie w/the TRs deployed...

 

[2000flyer]

Yes, the II and 560, at the right speed, TR deploy with the nose off the ground could cause a tail strike.

On the Falcon 2000, Dassualt took care of us and put a weight on wheels switch on the nose gear. The TRs will not deploy until the nose is firmly on the ground. Conversely, if the TRs are deployed and for some dumb-a## reason you decided to lift the nose off the ground, the TRs will stow.

I remember years ago reading how DC9 pilot's would deploy the TRs while the nose was in the air. I've seen and still see them do it. However, when the MD80 series came out, People Express if memory serves me, tried this and promptly removed both bottom buckets on the runway. OUCH!

 

[Thedude]

Wow...I never knew there were some many against the use of t/r while the nose is still in the air.
At least on the 727-200 with -15/-17, we DO USE t/r while the nose is still up. Its all about that little thing called aerodynamic braking. Typical touch down is at 140-160 kts, nose does't come down till about 90-100 kts. Unless you are going to stand on the brakes on a short rwy. We even hold the nose up when we use the auto-brakes.
Some of its about technique and some of its about a/c limitations, but not in our case. So before you start critizing somebody for trying to look cool, maybe you should know more about the ops of that particlar a/c.

 

[pa56pa]

In the CE560's, especially the Ultras and Encores, I heard this was an issue due to nose gear collapses. Because of the design of the hydraulic system, the open-center type, theoretically, it's possible to have insufficient hydraulic pressure for that nose gear once TR's are deployed first prior. I'm not sure if it has been proven, but this is now SOP for the Citation 560s.