Thoughts? new job, pay for experience issue..

[WalterSobchak]

I estimate there are ~2000 actively employed dispatchers in the US. That is an extremely small number...

...with a higher "Souls:Impact On Operations" ratio than any other workgroup in the industry.

I've often wondered what would happen if all the dispatchers at all the passenger carriers called in sick/unfit for duty one morning...just the morning shift, just enough to disrupt all passenger air traffic.** Would we have more leverage once we've shown our impact?...or would airline management, indeed, find a route to push us the way of the flight engineer?




** - Disclaimer - I'm not suggesting we do this...at the moment, anyway.

 

[airbrush]

As far as bringing it to the attention of the FAA, it may depend on who you contact. We had a situation back in the mid-90s where we got a new president, who then promptly fired our Director of System Control so he could replace him with his empty-suit buddy. This guy had the reputation (we later discovered) of being a real prick from two previous airlines, and he lived up to it in spades. Oddly enough, he had been a dispatcher early in his career, but when he got to us he seemed to hold us in complete contempt.

At the time we were working about 12-15 aircraft per dispatcher, which worked out to about 60-70 flight releases per 10-hour shift. Well, he claimed we could work up to 30 aircraft apiece, saying that they had done so when he was a dispatcher before all this fancy computerized equipment (I would like to have seen him prove that). He threatened that "if we couldn't do it, he'd replace us with people who could." Some of us covertly contacted our POI, citing our safety concerns, and he seemed interested at first. But before long he told us he was not interested in discussing the issue, and our boss, obviously pissed at having to answer the POI, was an even bigger jerk after that.

Fortunately, our president got a new job after about 3 grueling years. Shorty thereafter, after screwing over a good, competent guy at the next airline to create an opening, his buddy trailed along after him. What a great system, but at least we were glad to be rid of him. And my mother wonders why I never went into "management".

 

[Pull To Guns]

As far as bringing it to the attention of the FAA, it may depend on who you contact. We had a situation back in the mid-90s where we got a new president, who then promptly fired our Director of System Control so he could replace him with his empty-suit buddy. This guy had the reputation (we later discovered) of being a real prick from two previous airlines, and he lived up to it in spades. Oddly enough, he had been a dispatcher early in his career, but when he got to us he seemed to hold us in complete contempt.

At the time we were working about 12-15 aircraft per dispatcher, which worked out to about 60-70 flight releases per 10-hour shift. Well, he claimed we could work up to 30 aircraft apiece, saying that they had done so when he was a dispatcher before all this fancy computerized equipment (I would like to have seen him prove that). He threatened that "if we couldn't do it, he'd replace us with people who could." Some of us covertly contacted our POI, citing our safety concerns, and he seemed interested at first. But before long he told us he was not interested in discussing the issue, and our boss, obviously pissed at having to answer the POI, was an even bigger jerk after that.

Fortunately, our president got a new job after about 3 grueling years. Shorty thereafter, after screwing over a good, competent guy at the next airline to create an opening, his buddy trailed along after him. What a great system, but at least we were glad to be rid of him. And my mother wonders why I never went into "management".

Sad but all too typical. Sometimes as a dispatcher I wonder if I have "Kick Me" written on the back of my shirt.

What did we do wrong to deserve this kind of treatment? It seems to be universal. I am working for a foreign carrier now and it is the same here. WTF!?!?

 

[abxdx]

It is very easy for you to say these things and suggest sick-outs, rattling the FAA's cage etc.... because you have nothing to lose. You are no longer in the industry and will not be affected. In these uncertain times(not only in the aviation industry) some of us are hanging on by a thread. Maybe our spouse has already been laid off... our house mortgage is more than we can afford, we are having trouble paying our bills. You want us to stick our neck out and tell "the man" we deserve better. There are thousands of pilots, dxer's out there right now that would gladly take my place in a minute. Now is not the time to go on a crusade for the dispatch community. Safety and having enough dispatchers that are qualified is one thing but pay is something that everyone needs to understand going in. If you are unhappy with how you are compensated, leave the regional. There are good paying dispatcher jobs out there(or there were) you just have to look for them. If you spend your time working for a regional you will make regional money. Go for a big carrier, go for a cargo carrier, go for the Part 135 carrier.
I have been at cargo carriers the majority of my career and have always made decent money. I also work with people that came from regionals that now make good money, so it is possible.

Hmmm, judging by the replys thus far, or lack thereof by the masses, we see that these posts are just some of the reasons that dispatchers are treated like this... everybody just ends up taking it in the shorts... and it's unerstandable if only one office or worse, a few people makes a complaint..

I think this MUST be a very large and universal airlines formal complaint to the FAA administrator and the POI's.. it needs to be brought to the attention of our congreesman, senators to gain real attention this it deserves.. one or two POI's are not going to make waves and stir the pot needed to make changes.. it's going to take a FAA mandate.

This is a matter of safety, respect and recognition of the work we (you guys/gals) do.. if the uproar is larges enough, and a few well planned sick outs hit the companies in the mouth, across the country, then maybe they will step up to the plate..

I would highly suggest that we get pilots to write letters of support, get their unions help, I know that Washington has some big problems to deal with right now, so I am not say this has to be done right now.. but this will take large amount of carefully planned talks and coordination with unions and members.. unofficial sick outs.. and the plan presented all at once at the right time..

I don't envy you guys anymore.. I used too.. but I finally got tired of kissing a$$es to do what I loved to do.. management knows we do this work because we really enjoy the work, like pilots, they take this emotion to their advantage and beat us over the head with it..

Lets get more comments from others.. this will take alot of support to even have a chance..

 

[NSW]

Hey guys, I've been reading this interesting thread and I have a few thoughts.

I'm a career dispatcher myself and I definitely sympathize on the issues of pay, security and respect we all face. But let's not pretend we are alone in this business.

EVERY airline employee (with the exception of a Glenn Tilton or Jon Ornstein here and there -- the exceptions that prove the rule) is underpaid and underappreciated. Don't cry that dispatchers are different because "souls" are in our hands. Pilots, A&Ps, pushback operators, load planners, even TSA screeners -- every one has a link in the safety chain.

Think about the role of the dispatcher at the 21st century US airline. At most medium to large size airlines, the dispatcher's job is stripped down to the regulatory minimum. You plan fuel, check the MELs, weather and NOTAMs, and send the release if it's legal. The vast majority of what a dispatcher did when 14CFR 121 was written is now done by a computer.

JAR airlines in Europe are not required to have a dispatcher. A typical "dispatch" situation there is a single person overseeing 500 flight plans in a shift with 99% or more of the work including evaluation of legality performed by a machine. This is the direction we're headed. The evolution of this licensed position is not dissimilar to that of the Flight Engineer.

One day 121 will no longer require airlines to employ dispatchers and the remainder of the job will be parceled out to ops controllers, load planners and computers.

All this is to say that your experience, your on-paper responsibilities, whatever, they don't entitle you to anything. The American thing to do is to make your own way. To me, that means one of three things:

1. A serious and concerted effort to protect this profession. I am not going out on a limb to say that the unions and the ADF are miserable failures in this regard, but maybe it's an impossible task in this particularly effed up industry and economy.

2. You make the sacrifice to do the job. Teachers, cops, firefighters and yes, most pilots all have jobs more critical to society than dispatchers and generally get paid jack for it.

3. You use the experience. The well-rounded airline knowledge a dispatcher gets in the job is perfect experience toward advancement. Work your way into management, schedule planning or finance. Take some classes, build a resume.

Your career is what you make it. Whining never got anyone much of anything. Just my 2c.

 

[airbrush]

NSW, your points are well taken, as well as accurate.

I've never deluded myself to believe that we dispatchers were saving the world or anything. In fact, I recently worked a part-time job with a hospital comm center, where we dispatched two EMS helicopters and several ambulance units, and I was amazed how little EMTs make for the literal life-and-death nature of their jobs. Most of them worked at least two jobs, enduring long hours, high stress, grueling schedules, and often insensitive management in the quest to be there to care for any one of us on any given day should we find ourselves in a life-threatening situation. It really makes you wonder about our priorities as a society.

My biggest complaint is that, with the system as it is, one glitch in your career and you are screwed, and all of the years invested mean squat. I don't expect to get rich, but the starting salaries have been pounded down to the point where I can't even support my family, especially in the high COL areas where these companies choose to locate.

I don't understand why they don't see that; I would've seriously considered JetBlue a couple of years ago when several pilot friends offered to campaign on my behalf. But New freakin' York City? Not only is it not where I want to live or raise my family, but the starting pay was well below what is supposed to be the "minimum" required to live there. Same with other airlines, located in the DC Beltway area but paying wages that are more appropriate for a small city or rural area. But that's the reality of the business today, and I doubt that will change for the better. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the FAA pressured to change the regs and make Dispatchers go the way of the Dodo.

So, I'm doing my best to find another path. I stinks, but it seems to be the best thing to do for my family.

 

[Pull To Guns]

Not only can a little "glitch" ruin you career, just think if you were sued for negligence if a flight you had Joint Responsiblity in had an accident especially if there was a FAR violation involved. The victims' attorneys will go after any and all who even touched that flight. You could lose literally everything!

AFAIK this hasn't happened before but it's not out of the realm of possibility. We don't have immunity. Companies usually provide liability insurance for pilots but mechanics and dispatchers are on their own.