This is Security?

[A Passenger]

The so-called "security" agents are a complete joke.

I was late for a flight and I was pulled aside for a "random security check". I was made to take off my jacket, shoes, socks, and hat while a "security" agent frisked me. My bag was also chosen for a "security" search and these people ripped through my personal belongings, and stuffed them back in my bag. This process used up approximately 30 minutes, almost causing me to miss my flight.

I do not see how the so-called "security" measures make flying safer. Little children and elderly people are being searched while Arabic men (I do not have anything against Arabs, but the terrorists were of Arab descent) were not. When was the last time a two year old child hijacked an airplane? Most of the "security" agents were totally incompetent and increibly rude. These "security" proceedures are unacceptable, and I will avoid flying if at all possible in the future.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Those of us who are pilots have been saying this for two years now. Welcome to the TSA's new reality.

Now, you know what's really frustrating? Going through the same treatment you did right before being placed in charge of a 450 m.p.h. missile equipped with 1,700 gallons of kerosene, an axe, and a flare pistol.

 

[generaltso]

I've done a lot of traveling for business and I just get sick of the passengers who complain about security. You say elderly and kids shouldn't be searched. How about the kid who had a gun stashed in her bear (unknowingly planted)... or how about the elderly man that had a knife in his cane?

If you think airline security is bad now, remember what it was before 9/11? I think a lot of people lose sight of that. Laquisha and company with 3 inch nails screaming at eachother while viewing the x-ray.

For the most part, people have forgotten about 9/11. If you are complaining about being pulled to the side for additional security, then you have forgotten. Try to imagine the hundreds of thousands of people who lost a family member, loved one, or friend on 9/11/2001... and put yourself in their shoes.

A 10 minute security check doesn't seem that bad any more, does it?

 

[shamrock]

I can see children and elderly being screened as part of a representative sample of the passenger population, but too often, in my experience (not scientific study by any means), they seem to be searched disproportionately often. I've seen some pretty strange characters cruise through security without a second look from the screeners because they had Grandma, Grandpa, or Junior in their sights.

Whether or not safety is improved with the new screening practices in place is open to debate, but you would hope that passengers would at least feel like it is. That missing sense of security could be why passengers (and crew) complain about security screening so much. I think we all might be a little more patient if we believed that what we were going through actually contributed to safer travel. Unfortunately, seeing a screener do something such as asking someone to remove their sandels only to wand that persons bare feet does little to help in that regard.

 

[MYFpilot]

I agree, security is a joke. All it does successfully is create agitated passengers. I think they should do away with the security check completely. In-fact I would go a step further. I would actually issue a handgun to each passenger and collect it after the flight, just like headphones. This would actually make flying safer than the X-rays and random body cavity searches, because it uses the infallible concept of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). The MAD concept worked flawlessly during the cold war. The US and USSR both had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other, but neither suffered a direct casualty as a result. Both countries knew if someone fired a shot and war were to break out there would be no survivors let alone a victor. If we adapt MAD to commercial aviation I think it would be equally as effective. Let's say for example an individual, who we'll call Mo, is intent on taking command of a commercial airliner in order to claim his bounty of 72 virgins. That wouldn't be my first choice as a prize, but that's beside the point. Now granted Mo would no longer be armed with homemade weaponry, but rather a semi-automatic 9mm pistol. However, so would 150 other people on board, who like me want nothing to do with 72 whining virgins. With MAD, I think Mo's chances of even making it past isle 4 while chanting "death to the infidels" is probably somewhere between slim and none.
...Me thinks it just may work!!

 

[avbug]

Three weeks ago I had to make a very short notice flight. I was somewhere with things in a car, and had to change plans suddenly and go straight to the airport. Among those thigns were several firearms. I left those with a friend, threw some emergency clothes and a shaving kit in a backpack, grabbed a jacket, and headed for the terminal.

I didn't try to carry it on board; I checked it with two other items. I was told to hand carry it to TSA, and did. When the agent took it, I advised him that --just in case-- it had a lot of powder residue on it, and I'd be happy to explain. No problem he said (the bag had been an improvised rifle rest a day before, for several hundred rounds, and had residue all over one side).

No shoes, no wand, not a thing. Not even any questions. I did have to give up a pocket knife I had forgotten about in the rush (a nice little spyderco I've had for a long time), and didn't have any problem with that. My fault. They even offered to help out there, but I didn't have time to deal with it, as my plans-change had been such short notice.

Very friendly, very quick, and not a question about the bag.

When I picked it up at the other end, right next to my bag on the carosel was a shotgun cartridge. I handed it to a nearby TSA actor, who shrugged, and said "so what?"

 

[merikeyegro]

"Forgotten about 9/11"

Funny how many say that we have "forgotten about 9/11" when we stand in line and get agitated. Yeah, because the TSA makes us SO MUCH SAFER. There are numerous reports about RAMPANT mismanagement, lax supervision, cost overruns, and security breaches all over this country by the TSA. As well, they have lied about meeting deadlines ("we screen 100% of baggage for explosives" - flat out lie, as they screen OR MATCH 100% of the bags to onboard passengers - sound familiar?). All of this, however, is presented to the public in a "look how much we have spent on security. More agents, more pocket knives taken away, more money wasted, I mean spent on security" way. You have bought it hook, line, and sinker if you think for one minute that this new way of simply inconveniencing passengers has brought a degree of supposed increased security. Now, the terrorists only have to fool a government employee instead of a private one. Oh yeah, government employees actually have LESS authority to search and seize than a private employee does (see 4th Amendment). As well, they are not law enforcement.

All in all, the TSA is a failure. They have duped everyone from Day 1 of this charade. Please do not attempt to tell us otherwise. Proof is in the pudding...

 

[JJJ]

I find it strange that it took you 30 minutes for you and your bag to be screened. I and my belongings have been checked numerous times and it only takes 5 minutes, 10 minutes max.
Getting a medical doesn't even take 30 minutes.

Maybe there was an "observer" checking up on the security screening process, so they took their time and did everything extra careful.

 

[sky37d]

It's an old saying, that anyone can do anything, if they want to do so badly enough. TSA and it's screeners, while better than Latisha and her 3 inch nails, isn't really going to stop anyone. I went through their process a couple of times recently, and while you can xray my shoes, it wouldn't catch some things.

Equipping everyone with an handgun, as perverse as it sounds would be far more effective than the screening process prior to 9/11 or after. Of course, I can just see the problems, with junior shooting out a window at 40K. Practice your emergency descent procedures every week

 

[avbug]

Getting a medical doesn't even take 30 minutes.

My last medical certificate visit lasted three hours, and most of that was waiting for the doctor.

 

[LearLove]

"These "security" proceedures are unacceptable, and I will avoid flying if at all possible in the future"

A Passenger,

I (and I bet everyone else on this board also) agrees with your view. We see it almost everyday, its now apart of our profession. What I dont understand is why you seem to point the I'm better than you finger at us (flight crews) who have nothing to to with security and can't do anything about it. Thank you for taking it out on us, I know its all the pilots fault. Whatever.

 

[Hawker rider]

I think the new screening system isn't all that bad.

I only firmly believe that we need to drop the politically correct- random checks and base them quite a bit more on profiling.

off course grandpa can have a knife, just like the case in the 80's of the terrorist who befriended a girl, got her pregnant and sent her flying with his suitcase full of explosives, something like that will happen, so we need to keep checking!

all that needs to be done is that MORE target-people need to be screened, just like you get a red flag with a last minute ticket, no problem! But just to let the people go without screening because we don't want to be profiling??

COME ON!!

 

[Immelman]

avbug,

I've got a dollar that that goon didn't even know what a shotshell was, hence the "so what" attitude! Maybe he thought it was some fancy prescription bottle that happened to have a brass base to it.

 

[A Squared]

The US and USSR both had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other, but neither suffered a direct casualty as a result.

well, not exactly. Not to detract from your scheme, but the cold war was not without it's casualties. During the 1950's and 1960's we flew airplanes into Soviet Airspace in Northeastern Russia and the Russians shot them down, and the Soviets flew into Alaska and we occasionally shot them down. This wasn't publicised much at the time. I suppose the thinking was that it was better not to mention that Russians were flying into our airspace, nor to admit that we were invading thier airspace. I once read the published number of US aircrew lost over USSR airspace during that time, and I seem to recall that it ran into the hundreds.

 

[Nolife]

Ben Franklin

The wise old man once said," People willing to trade liberty for security deserve neither."

The TSA has too much power. As a certificated airman if I'm disruptive or viewed as causing a problem, or a security threat, the TSA can revoke my ATP indefinitely. There is no appeal except to the TSA, the same folks who took my livelihood away.

Why do we let them have so much unchecked power in the name of false security. 70% of the search process is legit, i.e. metal detector, X-ray, but the shoes, nail clippers, etc are ridiculous and only give the illusion of security.

Motivated folks can beat any system and all you end up doing is harassing innocent folks to be able to say that something is being done.

 

[wickedpilot]

How about the kid who had a gun stashed in her bear (unknowingly planted)... or how about the elderly man that had a knife in his cane?

was that the one in Atlanta? I thought the knife was hidden in the shaft of an umbrella. Or maybe it's two different scenarios alltogether.

Anyway genearltso, I agree 100% with your post. I didn't bother reading on.
Maybe the TSA isn't working to their optimum but they ARE the Adminstration in charge of our security so I support them for that.

After any type of security check on me is completed, I just thank the agent for doing there job and go on with my day.

 

[merikeyegro]

amen

Amen, nolife. Good to know that someone else understands the TSA monster. Hope they all just go away someday. A boy can dream, can't he?

 

[WrightAvia]

I've seen some pretty strange characters cruise through security

Those were probably the Federal Air Marshalls.

The US and USSR both had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other, but neither suffered a direct casualty as a result.

I would say the illnesses suffered by the workers that assembled our nuclear arsenal, are direct casualties. Not to mention the civilian and military personel that suffered Illness as a direct result of testing the bombs. This doesn't even take into consideration the Russians. We'll never know the human cost of the Russian side of nuclear bomb building and testing.

I would go a step further. I would actually issue a handgun to each passenger and collect it after the flight, just like headphones.

NO! I see your point, but the majority of people that are not firearms fluent are going to be a danger to themselves and everybody on board. These are the people you see with the look of a deer in the headlights, while trying to negotiate a "4 WAY" stop sign controlled intersection...and the same ones you see standing in a catatonic stupor at the "self serve" soda fountain at a SUBWAY, trying to figure out what they want and how to get it to come out of the spout. We don't need THEM adding excitement and extra "value" to our flight on an airliner.

I will say that people (and I mean passengers) that have achieved a certain level of certification in firearms proficiency, especially with an endorsement of some kind relating to firearms aboard an aircraft, COULD be allowed to carry their permited concealed weapon. Will it ever happen? No. Could it work? Probably. Would it be worth the risk? I don't think so. Even as pro gun as I am, I can see where this will never fly.

Besides, you mentioned the word ISSUE. I wouldn't want ANY firearm the airlines issued me. I also couldn't see the TSA handing anyone a gun. The FAA? Nope, never gonna happen.

As we saw when we discussed "First Gun" on the regional section...lots of people have opinions on what would be the best firearm. Would I use my own if allowed? Sure. I'm comfortable with it. I know how it works, where the levers are, what the liabilities and responiblities are, how it shoots and how to make it shoot again, should it hicup. But Homer Simpson, the SUV driver that talks on cell phone while hogging the left lane of the highway driving next to a semi for 10 miles...do I want him to be issued a gun when he gets on a flight. Not only NO, but HELL NO!

 

[Typhoon1244]

For the most part, people have forgotten about 9/11. If you are complaining about being pulled to the side for additional security, then you have forgotten.

No, I haven't forgotten about September 11th. I remember it vividly. What I remember is that nineteen Middle Eastern men aged eighteen to fifty prepetrated one of the worst murder-suicides of all time. I've studied that nightmare carefully, and I can't find a single case of an airliner being hijacked by (for example) an eighty year old female chemotherapy patient or a five year old girl...both of which I've seen subject to intense screening.

For Christ's sake, I even saw a TSA agent instruct a college-age woman to take off her sandals so he could wand her bare feet!

No General, we haven't forgotten September 11th...in fact, the memory of that awful day makes us cry out for real security, not the farce the TSA puts on each day.