This is how ugly an SLI can be. Watch out SWA

[27 driver]

SWAPA and ALPA will agree upon the topics they can agree upon and the arbitrator will decide the rest. This deal in no way resembles the East/West deal. I may be naive but I believe that both unions will play hard ball but in the end will hash out most of the details. It is our unions job to fight hard for their pilot groups. Just business. After that we will all have to accept whatever the arbitrator decides.

 

[Sy-bill]

McCaskell/Bond is not written to guarantee relative seniority as what seems to be alluded to. It is there to prevent another AA/TWA situation.

Every seniority merger/integration has its very own merits. There is a snapshot taken at the time of the announcement so that contracts are not changed to dilute issues like pay differences. The new Airtran contract will have no effect on negotiations or judgements. The 50% + pay difference is what will be considered.

There is no precedence with the SWA/AT integration post M/B. And I can assume that if Swapa does not like where the negotiations are going, they can stretch this out for years and years to their benefit. They must agree on arbitration.

For both of your groups, interesting times could be ahead.

 

[ivauir]

And those two cases aren't even remotely recent or applicable. JA had 10 airplanes, and Muse 16. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Number of airplanes? When has that been relevant? Never.

Even if it was - look at the ratios of the acquired companies vs the parent companies. The examples I cited are very similar to this transaction. Very much apples to apples and far more relevant than the examples you posted.

Like I state: there is NO precedent for a 20 increase in longevity, 50% pay raise and relative seniority. It's a "triple lindy" - it has never been done.

It would be beyond windfall to translate seniority in a 117 seat aircraft, under a regressive contract in ATL into equivalent seniority in a 137/175 seat aircraft, under the industry's richest contract in Phoenix.

Let's play nice and move along.

 

[Dan Roman]

After that we will all have to accept whatever the arbitrator decides.

Which is exactly what the USAPA folks said they would do and than reneged when they didn't like result. They have given up a lot of money and opportunity for that little faux pau.

 

[Lear70]

Are we really going to go over all this again?

How much more can be said that hasn't already been said?

Moderator hat on:

As far as being allowed to post, as long as MCDU stays within the ToS, he's free to post in the appropriate forums. This thread is comparing SWA/AAI to AWA/UAir, all of which are Major airlines, it's in the Majors forum, so discuss all you want.

/mod

 

[SWA2000]

I'm not a smart man...so can anybody explain to me why if it will probably be up to the arbitrator to decide, why hasn't the AW + US been cleared up. Didn't an arbitrator decide on that matter? So, whats to say that the SW or AT pilots has to except what an arbitrator decides?

When I was hired, my new hire class had breakfast with Herb. I asked him at that time "will Southwest ever grow through merger". He said no, "because of the Culture issue". Obviously, he isn't the one making the decisions around here. I guess what I am getting at is that for 40 years SWA has prided itself on its culture and employee relations. They are fully aware of the disatrous effect a merger can have on culture. I can only believe that SWA's first priority is their employees. I think if they see this is going south, they will not allow a AW/US situation to occur, that would be too costly. What will they do? I don't know. But I do know Gary and Herb are as smart as the come when it comes to running an airline. I am sure they have a wild card! Only time will tell.

 

[Sy-bill]

What will they do?

They still have a choice to not buy the airline if they discover how the real attitudes will play out. There is a line where they can see the culture hit isn't worth the acquisition.

Everything I read is Herb still being a major influence on important decisions.

 

[The Prussian]

But in the end, it won't matter, and the aribitrator(s) will do what he/she/they want to do, and what that will be is to go with precedent.

Nu

Precedent...Schmecedent...

Who's to say that precedent is sacrosanct and can't change...and thus the direction of legal opinions, once the results play themselves out? Can not arbitrators re-formulate their opinions when they witness a AAA/AWA SLI disaster?? I think that precedent is only good up until that last case, and that legal opinion can change with the times...IMHO.

Anybody here have some legal background on "precedent"???

 

[27 driver]

Which is exactly what the USAPA folks said they would do and than reneged when they didn't like result. They have given up a lot of money and opportunity for that little faux pau.

I can only speak for myself so I will accept what the arbitrator decides. I am sure it will be "fair and equitable". I think the biggest difference here is that we are not both ALPA. I am not sure that if we don't like the decision and decide to de-certify ALPA it will make a difference. I guess that will be for the lawyers to decide.

 

[27 driver]

They still have a choice to not buy the airline if they discover how the real attitudes will play out. There is a line where they can see the culture hit isn't worth the acquisition.

Everything I read is Herb still being a major influence on important decisions.

The only flaw I see with you theory is that the DOCC will probably happen long before any SLI gets nasty. Besides you are assuming that it will turn into an East/West scenario. It could go smoothly just like DAL/NWA. Keep the faith until given reason not to. I can assure you any SLI decisions will not be made here on Flightinfo.com.