The squadron ART position

[Mooseflyer]

Hey guys, I'm approaching a decision point in my career and I'm interested in hearing from current and/or former squadron ARTs on what you thought of the job. I've spoken to a few (current and former) in my unit already and, predictibly, some love it and some didn't. Info on the following would be helpful:

Why did you leave? (or stay, if you're still there)
What did you leave for - airline or some other line of work?
Were you on active duty before becoming a reservist?
What you did and didn't like about the job and why.
What type aircraft your unit has.
Did you take the job because you were furloughed? Do you plan to take recall when it's offered?
Married? Kids?
Anything else you feel like tossing out.

I don't imagine I'll hear too much from career ARTs, as they probably wouldn't be surfing this board if they weren't considering leaving! Anything is helpful, thanks a bunch....

 

[McGillicutty]

Forgive the ignorance but, what is an "ART"?

 

[KCPilot]

I hate my ART job, I hate my ART job, I hate my ART job, but the money is not bad!

Mooseflyer-

I'm not sure of what your status is i.e. just coming off active duty or a reserve bum, but being an ART in my unit has seen much better days! We work 9 hr days with a 30 min lunch period so 9.5 hrs a day plus 1+45 hrs of commute which might not seem bad. You can use 3 hours of admin leave a week to work out. But watch out when you try to do military duty, that time card is something else, accounting for every minute and making sure you didn't get dual comp on something! And the work all day, fly night 16 hr day, leave at midnight and back in the office at 6 am gets old, week after week after week, not to mention the Dirty Dozen (work all week, weekend and back all week) like we'll be doing this weekend. But if you where working downtown somewhere, you'd have the samething, and I remember those days.

The furloughed airline guys in my unit that are ARTs can't wait for the day to get recalled or hired by another airline!! The career ARTs try to talk them and me out of it, but after my last 8 years as an ART, I can't wait for the day I leave the program and become a TR again! I miss my bum days!

Pros of the ART program- GS-13 (about 85K with bonus) to start plus mil pay (min run mil about 20K+) is what you can get which is much higher than the airlines starting pay. But as myself and a fellow ART where talking today, a Capt on Active Duty or AGR takes home about the same or a little more than us due to the taxes and has more time off. With that we'd love to be AGRs after it's all said and done and you can retire after 20 yrs verus the 32 yrs I'll have to put in for a retirement (age 50 for FERS). So the pay is not all it's made up to be, but you do get up to 5% match with the TSP which is not bad. As for your medical, you will have to make a small payment and your dental can be done with Tricare in the reserves. Alsoskip the life insurance and find something on the outside it's better and cheaper.

One good thing if you like to be home at night, you will, unless of course you are flying a local or on a week long trip. My unit has tankers so if we are not deployed, our typical trips are a week long, which is not bad.

But the big draw back for me is being there with nothing to do. We have a busy times, but when it comes down to it, you need to be there just in case something happens and time account for and that is what most of us in my unit feel we are there for, the just in case. I can get my job done in say 1-2 hrs and have the rest of the day off to BS, but I'm there for the "just in case" factor and that is what we really get paid for. I'd rather work hard for a week or two and then have the other week or two off.

Also from what I've seen over the last 15 yrs is that most of the career ARTs are those that could not make it on active duty and said yes to whatever the Reserve Command has asked them to do. They have no idea on how the Reserves or Guard work and would love to make it like Active Duty, which it is not! So you have that managment style to deal with.

So again, Moose, I'm not sure where you are and I hope your unit is not as f***ed as mine is now but that is my view of the program.

Also I failed to mention with this latest BRAC, since my unit is losing our planes, we were told that as "ART Officers" we'd be put in a pot and the Command would "offer" us a new position at a new unit and that if we didn't take it, "well that is where your food is so go if you want to eat"! Gotta love that! I'm looking for work elsewhere after that comment, thay can keep my job!!!

Best of luck with your choice. As a once to be career ART, it's a hard job to do and I'd say stick it out for the airlines, that's what I'm hoping for!

 

[KCPilot]

ART- Air Reserve Technician- Full time Air Force Reservist or Air National Guardsman. The Gurad calls them Technicians. It’s a civil service position.

 

[bssthound]

ART is a civilian position, however you have a military reservist position in the same capacity. You can't be an ART without being a reservist. ARTs wear military uniforms while on civilian status, even fly in civilian status.

My squadron, due to having to often come up with several crews overnight during hurricane season, has 10 ARTs per crew position. That does lead to a lot of dead time during the offseason, however, with our recent conversion to the J-Model we've been pretty busy getting everyone trained.

There are a lot of reasons to like or dislike the position. With the paycuts the major airlines have been taking lately the ART position is looking better to a lot of the pilots I talk to. I know quite a few good pilots, who're good guys, and are quite capable that aren't interested in the airlines and like being ARTs. To each his own.

I've been in the Guard/Reserves almost 20 years. During that time in the pilot world, overall, it's been my observation that the ART job has always played 2nd fiddle to the airlines. I've seen the airlines go boom and bust more than once. Whenever the airlines aren't doing well the ART job is more coveted.

 

[afres bum]

I was never an ART; however I declined offers a couple times in the late 90’s... The ART's could not fly missions when they had other obligations (UTA, schedule, training, stan/eval duties, etc.) and it limited their ability to build flight time. Now that I have plenty of hours and a furlough under my belt, the ART jobs don't look too bad! They have a better quality of life than most airline jobs right now and they are making more money with a retirement.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Thanks for all the well thought out replys guys. I spent about 10 years on active duty and have been a reservist for about two years. I really enjoy my unit - great guys, great leadership, and great flying. That's one of the reasons I'm considering more involvement. In fact, I've done quite a bit of research into the GS job already. I agree that the money, by comparison to today's airline standards, is very good. As a matter of fact, I've run some numbers comparing the pay to one of today's quickly growing LCCs, and discovered that the end result is about equal, financially speaking. Of course I had to make many assumptions when doing this and who knows what the future may hold, especially in today's environment. I also find the flexability appealing, i.e. if I'd like to stay in town for birthdays, anniversarys, etc, I can. If I want some extra time off to work around the house, I can go on a trip to build some comp. Thanks again for the input - keep it coming!

 

[Take A]

KCpilot is right on the money.

Every ART I know can't wait to get out of that job.

Most are just biding time, waiting for recall, waiting to interview, start class, etc.

I've never talked to a former ART that says, "Yeah....I'm kind of bummed being back at XXX airline...I really wish I coulsd get that ART deal again!"

I agree that the problem is idiots that want to turn the Reserve into Active Duty..............................unfortunately usually those are the guys with rank and position who have never been an airline pilot and can't relate...although they think they can.

 

[Mu2Driver]

How does pay work for the ART position? What GS level is it?

 

[slacker]

ART Jobs

ART jobs can suck, in fact, most of them come with a built in suck-factor. However, this factor can be overcome by keeping the right perspective.

- I chose my schedule- I can say "no" to trips or local lines if I need to.
- The pay is better than most "renegotiated" airline contracts.
- I can be at home when I want or go on the road when I want.

Tons of flexibilty most of the time. The built in suck-factor depends on your non-flying duties- what's your job in the squadron. Suck, can vary greatly between offices.

Pay scale depends on qualification level. GS-13 instructor pilot, GS-12 Aircraft Commander, GS-9/11 entry level copilot positions. I started as a GS-9 copilot on Sept 10, 2001 (the day before ART jobs were coveted). Now, I'm on the other side of the spectrum. GS-9/11's don't get the "bonus payscale" and are found on the traditional GS payscale. GS-12 and GS-13's are on a different "Series 5" payscale. (I believe table 0558.)

Good luck.

 

[dudemize]

Mooseflyer, you figure out what you're gonna do yet?

I have a good shot at picking up an ART position in my squadron in the next few months and must say it seems much more appealing to me than the airlines. As I get older I'm becoming much more of a "be home every night" kinda guy (especially with a 17 month old at home). Although as indicated in this thread, I don't expect being an ART to be all fun and games.

I'm gonna keep pursuing the airlines til I actually have the ART offer in hand though. My CAL contact says to expect an interview call in early January, we'll see.

 

[JungleJett]

I have never heard one single technician (Air Guard) complain about a full time position. In fact, many traditionals would kill for the job. Maybe it is something about the reserves compared to the Air Guard...

 

[Mooseflyer]

Aha! My thread resurrected from the dead. To answer your question dudemize, no, I haven't figured it out yet. I just got another year of full time orders approved which will take me through next fall, so that takes some pressure off. One of our ARTs just left for FedEx, so there will be a slot available once it makes it through all the wickets, which could take a few months.

I suppose my choices come to the following:
1. Go back to my LCC airline next fall approaching 3rd year FO pay (which would still be around a 35% pay cut from active duty, not to mention fully taxed). This would also require a cross country move.
2. Interview for and accept the ART job if offered.
3. Continue my 3 year search for a better airline job.
4. Go back on active duty if possible (yikes)!
5. Be a TR and find a career totally unrelated to aviation.

Who knows what will pan out? Certainly not me!

Regardless, Merry Christmas to all you guys - especially the ones overseas for the holiday. I'm fortunate/lucky enough to be home, but will be gone for New Year's.

 

[dtfl]

Aha! My thread resurrected from the dead. To answer your question dudemize, no, I haven't figured it out yet. I just got another year of full time orders approved which will take me through next fall, so that takes some pressure off. One of our ARTs just left for FedEx, so there will be a slot available once it makes it through all the wickets, which could take a few months.

I suppose my choices come to the following:
1. Go back to my LCC airline next fall approaching 3rd year FO pay (which would still be around a 35% pay cut from active duty, not to mention fully taxed). This would also require a cross country move.
2. Interview for and accept the ART job if offered.
3. Continue my 3 year search for a better airline job.
4. Go back on active duty if possible (yikes)!
5. Be a TR and find a career totally unrelated to aviation.

Who knows what will pan out? Certainly not me!

Regardless, Merry Christmas to all you guys - especially the ones overseas for the holiday. I'm fortunate/lucky enough to be home, but will be gone for New Year's.

Im making as much as I would back at DAL as a bum. I do not, nor (unless there was a major change in the magnetic fields of the earth) would I EVER want to be an ART. At my unit they work longer hours to get a day off every two weeks....and the first 14 days of the month you have NO days off due to UTA. Add to that the flying they do after work pulling 16 hour days...and then I see that many (not all - and this has been my impression of other DOD and GS employees) rise to their own level of incompetence..meaning they hit a point where they do as little as necessary to only get by.
Just my $.02

 

[BengalsFan]

I'm not an ART, but from what some of my ART buddies have told me, it depends on where you are. At my unit they work 5 days a week... well most of them... but at my buddy's unit, they work 4 - 10 hour days... and always have 3 day weekends... so that sounds very appealing.

But that is a lot of hear-say. My opinion, is that its all personal. But when the airlines are back on their feet, and the bums are not longer "fulltime," the ART job becomes a lot more difficult, because they have to pick up the unfilled local lines and stay on the flying hours program.

Me, I'm going back onto Active Duty, get my 40-50k retirement check (backup) when I hit 43, and then try this whole civilian flying thing again.

Good luck to you all, nothing is perfect, you just have to find what fits you best.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Good points from dtfl and BengalsFan. I agree it's largely unit dependent - I've flown with some guys from other units and, like BengalsFan, have heard reports on both ends of the spectrum. I think it's also airframe dependent. In my particular aircraft, our days can be quite long and there is opportunity to earn significant comp time. For example, a few weeks ago I flew a Fri-Sun 3 day stateside trip. If I had been a TR (I'm currently on orders), I would have gotten 3 days of pay. Had an ART been on the trip, he would have earned 4 additional days of comp on the trip, so essentially 7 days of pay. Granted, the TR burning TPs or UTAs is going to earn more than the equivilant of 3 active duty days of pay, but I think my example stands. In addition, the ART would be able to bank those comp days for use at a later date if desired.

BengalsFan - If you don't mind, how far have you looked into the return to active duty option? Is it a done deal? What's your yeargroup? Feel free to PM. I haven't looked into it yet at all, but I figured with the VSA going on, the chances were pretty slim. I don't really think I've quite come to terms with the fact that I'd be doing the same job I was 3 years ago, but with the knowledge I passed up a quarter million in bonus $$ to do it.

 

[bssthound]

It does depend on the unit. Being in dtfl's wing, I can assure you he's not exaggerating. Also, the pay is great if you're a Capt/GS-13 IP. As you get promoted in military rank you approach parity with AD pay. Also, it's easy to burn out since you have to stick around 'til age 55 to retire. All the nonsense you end up bearing witness to by that time will definitely have worn on you. Another negative is that your problem children will hide behind civilian status: "You can't get me for that 'cause I wasn't in military status when it happened." Sorry, do I sound like Stan Eval? Yeah, the hours are long if you're gonna burn all your TPs and get an extra manday or three but you do spend most nights at home. For some guys it's perfect and for others it's a complete A$$PAIN. Please forgive my stream of conciousness style on this one but today I'm too lazy to organize it into paragraph form.

 

[dtfl]

It does depend on the unit. Being in dtfl's wing, I can assure you he's not exaggerating. Also, the pay is great if you're a Capt/GS-13 IP. As you get promoted in military rank you approach parity with AD pay. Also, it's easy to burn out since you have to stick around 'til age 55 to retire. All the nonsense you end up bearing witness to by that time will definitely have worn on you. Another negative is that your problem children will hide behind civilian status: "You can't get me for that 'cause I wasn't in military status when it happened." Sorry, do I sound like Stan Eval? Yeah, the hours are long if you're gonna burn all your TPs and get an extra manday or three but you do spend most nights at home. For some guys it's perfect and for others it's a complete A$$PAIN. Please forgive my stream of conciousness style on this one but today I'm too lazy to organize it into paragraph form.

True. One man's heaven is another man's hell.

 

[JDriver]

10% of the people accomplish 90% of the work

ART leadership piles the workload on the working 10% b/c they know that these folks will get the job done. Hard work and diligence is rewarded with other additional duties.

The other 90% will get by doing as liitle as possible. Leadership mostly overlooks the 90% b/c it will take more work/paperwork than it is worth to get the same job done.

Overall - a really good job, but you cant let the little things eat you apart if you want to make a career of it. Short memories, flexible standards, and watching f-sticks getting promoted becomes common.

dtfl - did I miss anything?

 

[dtfl]

10% of the people accomplish 90% of the work

ART leadership piles the workload on the working 10% b/c they know that these folks will get the job done. Hard work and diligence is rewarded with other additional duties.

The other 90% will get by doing as liitle as possible. Leadership mostly overlooks the 90% b/c it will take more work/paperwork than it is worth to get the same job done.

Overall - a really good job, but you cant let the little things eat you apart if you want to make a career of it. Short memories, flexible standards, and watching f-sticks getting promoted becomes common.

dtfl - did I miss anything?

All I would add is that the 90% work-burden should be shared by ARTs and TRs and BUMs that are capable and want to work...other than that -
Enjoy Fed Ex. I guess this last statement says a lot about "your" ART job