The rot has started

[Rottweiller]

UAL have advised that all the current UAL Express carriers and those interested in doing the flying have until Friday next week to submit bids (and re-submit in the case of AWI, ACA, SKW & MESA) for this flying.

Of course management are looking at all areas to cut costs and our MEC are working with them to do this. But guess what was thrown into the ring for food for thought? THE MESA CONTRACT!!!

Now many of us could face even more furloughs, lay offs or work for sub-standard wages like MESA. Again I would like to thank them for their (78% of them at least) spinless cave in and the demise of other peoples standards of living.

 

[WileE]

So?

If Mesa hadn't accepted the improved contract, United could still piont at Mesa because they would be working under a worse contract. In fact they'd probably be pointing towards Freedom instead as a major bidder because then they could get a low cost carrier without having to worry about a union there at all. You somehow think that would be an improvement?

Why is it that everyone chooses to ignore the fact that this contract is an improvement over the old one in just about every respect? Not a big improvement, granted, but an improvement none-the-less. Just ignore the fact that Mesa would still be operating under the expired contract for at least another year before there would even be a possibility of a strike. Ignore the fact that if Freedom got United contracts as well as America West contracts it would have only hastened the demise of the Mesa pilot group. Ignore facts, ignore logic, and only expound rhetoric.

Why is it that everyone seems to take management's word at face value only when they are pointing fingers and blaming other pilots? They've already lied, cheated and stolen to get huge concessions from mainline, now you assume they aren't in order to get concessions at their contract carriers?

Welcome to the airline world.

 

[the turtle]

Wile E....

Would you write a generic response that we can all use whenever someone posts that all the industry's ills are based on the Mesa contract? Frankly, I too grow tired of their wine. Thanks.

 

[Capt America]

It is insane for anyone to blame the industries problems on MESA.

However, It is just as bad to think that is has no effect.

And it is even worse to be one of those low lifes that sold out.

 

[beechdriver]

Here's one:

Mind your own friggin business. I didn't ask your opinion before I voted and certainly don't care what you think now. When the welfare of my family is weighed against your hopes to get a better contract next time around, you lose. Don't like it? Tough. Almost 80% of our pilot group, when confronted with all the available information decided that it was in their best interest to vote YES. Selfish? Hell yes. But guess what - every single NO voter I have spoken with used the same criteria in weighing their vote. Their decision making process didn't factor *you* in any more than mine did. They did what they felt was best for THEM - period. Had we as a group turned down the TA, it would have been for reasons just as "selfish" as those we used in our acceptance of it... Your opinion and what was best for *you* STILL wouldn't have mattered a bit. Only then, because it would have fallen into line with YOUR interests, you would have been singing our praises. Amazing. Despite all the brotherhood rhetoric, we all did what we did to safeguard our own families...just like the next pilot group in line will do. It's called human nature. Don't like it? Leave the planet.

 

[Capt America]

yea and I bet your **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hurts also.

Good luck trying to spend time with your family with all that time off. Oh and try not to spend it all in on place.

Please, this family aurgument is BS I have a family and I could do anything and make what they pay me. None of us make enough to worry about losing it. It would have some validity if we were talking six digits, but even then we all should not allow ourselves to get so deep into dept.

I realize that its easy to talk big and you never know till your in that situation...........trust me my time is approaching I will get my chance to cast my vote.

 

[Intruder One]

I guess we could also blame the ills of the majors on LCC carriers such as Southwest,Jet Blue and Air Tran,but I don't think anyone here is doing that. Not to let Mesa off the hook,but this is going on at every level not just the regionals.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

True, but where does it all end? We all need to make sure we keep the focus on improving conditions and compensation with each new contract. While the Mesa contract was not concessionary, it was still woefully inadequate and not anywhere close to being industry standard. The pressure exerted on all other regional airlines as a result of the MAG contract cannot be ignored.

At any rate, I'll just have to agree to disagree and walk away from this can of worms. What's done is done...I just hope that the carriers that are actually trying to make strides such as CHQ, Mesaba, etc. are able to do so...

 

[pljenkins]

The big problem with Mesa is that Ornstein has an annoying tendency to pin his labor groups against the wall with his other companies. Look at the track record just recently. He used Mesa to whipsaw the CCAir guys into a contract that ended up screwing them in the end. Now suddenly the Mesa contract gets close to renegotiation time and guess what pops up? You guessed it, Freedumb Air. Instant whipsaw. Mesa guys vote no on their contract, and all the new flying goes to Freedom and Mesa gets bled dry. Mesa guys vote yes to contract, and they get blackballed by the rest of the industry. The fact that the Freedom guys are all now wearing Mesa IDs makes it worse for the Mesa pilots. Now there are a bunch of airlines that are just flat denying ANYONE wearing a MAG ID the jumpseat! So it makes it worse now because those few days these guys DO get off are spent going back and forth between their home and their domicile.

The only true way to make this all go away is for pilots to run from that place like the plague, but we all know that that won't happen. San Juan will make sure that there's plenty of fresh meat at Mesa.

Anyway, to take it home, I'm not too worried about Mesa taking all the UAL flying. First and foremost, they've got about the worse completion record of any currently operating airline. Couple that with a labor force that pretty much hates their company, their pay and their life, and you've got one poor performing airline, but hey, ya get what you pay for. UAL of all companies should know... They've been down this road before with MAG. If UAL goes with Mesa as their new Express carrier, and they try to launch this Starfish junk, we're going to be seeing ALOT of airplanes in the desert real soon.

Here's to hoping that UAL doesn't get blinded by the numbers games that Ornstein is so good at playing.

P.