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"The Glory Days Are Over"...

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AGuyThatFlys

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Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Posts
84
Proficient Pilot

The glory days are over

BY BARRY SCHIFF (From AOPA Pilot, June 2006.)
Barry Schiff retired from TWA in 1998 after a 34-year career with the airline.
[SIZE=+2]I[/SIZE] have been agonizing over the topic of this column for a few years, not knowing if I should publicly air my personal thoughts. Not to do so, I finally concluded, would be intellectually dishonest. So at the risk of attracting flak, here goes.

I was hired as a pilot by Trans World Airlines in 1964. This was during the glamour years that began after World War II. Airline salaries were rising, working conditions improved with every contract renewal, and airline pilots earned approval and respect from every quarter. On international flights, airline pilots were treated like royalty.

No one working for Pan American World Airways or TWA during this period could possibly have anticipated the demise of their airlines. These were cultural icons of the twentieth century. At one time, TWA's logo was the second most recognizable in the world (Coca-Cola's was the first).

The death knell for this era sounded on October 24, 1978, when President Jimmy Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act. The merits and demerits of deregulation aside, the long-term result for pilots was etched in stone. There would be an erosion of wages, working conditions, pensions, and job security.
Things got worse after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. Because of the need for additional security, airline pilots are locked in their cockpits behind bulletproof doors and suffer the indignity of coordinating trips to the lavatory with flight attendants.

The glory years are gone.

I could not have been prouder when my son Brian was hired by TWA in 1989. Although conditions had declined since the airlines were deregulated, being an airline pilot was still a great job. He upgraded to captain on the Boeing 727 11 years later. Although thrilled to be in the left seat of a jetliner for a major carrier, he worked harder and earned a smaller salary than I did many years previously.

TWA was assimilated by American Airlines in 2001. During the next two years Brian went from left seat to right seat to the street. He had been furloughed and eventually found a job flying Learjets for a Part 135 operator. He now flies as captain of a Canadair Regional Jet for a commuter carrier.

Like thousands of others who have been furloughed from the majors, he has no idea when he will be recalled. Considering that American is reducing its need for pilots by contractual increases in pilot productivity and outsourcing many of its shorter, thinner routes to commuter carriers, it could be many years before Brian again sees an American Airlines' flight deck. Another of my sons, Paul, began to satisfy his desire to become an airline pilot in 2000 when he was hired by Trans States Airline, a company that operated TWExpress, US Airways Express, and AmericanConnection. Paul bounced between all three and discovered after 9/11 that he was not making headway in accruing seniority.

After four domicile changes, he opted to leave Trans States and obtain a more promising position with United Express. He worked there for three years, during which he had as many changes in domicile, and discovered that the most he had earned after six years as a commuter pilot was less than $30,000 per year. He again foresaw little potential for a career like I had and with great mental anguish opted to change professions.

Paul recently started a pet-supply company, gets to spend every night in his own bed, and has an opportunity to develop a social life. As an airline pilot gone from home 21 days a month, he had little opportunity to meet someone with whom he might like to share a future. When he did meet someone, he had neither the time nor the money for dating.

Paul says, "It is relatively easy to get a job with a commuter carrier, but not because these carriers are losing pilots to the majors; they are not. The attrition rate at the regional level is high because so many pilots reach their limits of endurance and quit. They find it too difficult to live on starvation wages [especially those with families]. There usually was nothing left in my wallet after shelling out for commuting and crash-pad expenses."

Although these are anecdotal experiences, my frank and personal discussions with numerous other airline pilots corroborate my feelings about the state of the airline industry. I can no longer encourage aspiring airline pilots without first ensuring that they understand the treacherous and daunting journeys typically required to reach for such lofty goals.

Do not misunderstand. Coping with the challenges of weather, communing with nature in a way that only pilots can appreciate, and maneuvering a sophisticated aircraft from one place on Earth to another remains a stimulating and gratifying endeavor (although I think it was more fun with less automation). It is the price one must pay to get there that is so discouraging.

I frequently am asked for advice about becoming an airline pilot. The best advice I can offer those determined to endure the rigorous hardships often required is to simultaneously develop a sideline vocation that can be used in case of emergency. A pilot should never get into a position that is totally dependent on income from an airline.

Does the end justify the means? Does becoming a captain for a major airline justify all that must be endured to get there? Perhaps, but surviving long enough to get there is the problem.
 
4 Year degree or at least a CFII, especially at the regional level. I think you should have atp mins to fly part 121.
 
I would say most of the newhires at my regional have 4yr degrees, as opposed to the sr RJ CAs who started off flying B1900s/Shorts 360s. Most of our CAs are still here because of a lack of college education.
 
SuperKooter said:
If they made a 4 year degree manditory we could raise wages in this industry.

Really........me thinks you full of crapppoooooollllllaaaa. Mr. BARRY SCHIFF did not have a 4 yr degree. And, neither did Chuck Yeager or Bob Hoover...or...etc.

Please....I have a 4 yr degree and I could not stomach more than 11 years at the regionals.

So you think a 4 yr degree would save the idustry?

You should get your money back on your education if you ask me.

Most of the Professionals have 4 yr degree's. And, if the regionals don't want them then there is a reason......and that reason is they want someone who doesn't really hold that high an image of themselves (read as intitled/justified/demanding of high salary in consideration of education). They will be easy to push around (the only place for them is another regional), they will be easily told they are not worth the money they are paid....etc. And put up with the crap that mgmt hands out. Mgmt rules....He with the gold makes the rules.

With a 4 yr degree you should see that you could do about anything and be better off. And, live a happy and healthy life away from Airline Mgmt Scum.

Frankly I think most pilots are wasting there money on a four yr degree. Can you spell Debt.

Or did they not teach you economics in college?

Put the crack pipe down and rejoin the formation superkooter.
 
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With a 4 yr degree you should see that you could do about anything and be better off. And, live a happy and healthy life away from Airline Mgmt Scum.

Frankly I think most pilots are wasting there money on a four yr degree. Can you spell Debt.

Or did they not teach you economics in college?

This will be something that will eventually disappear here in the U.S.The demand for pilots will increase as the pool of pilots starts running dry, and then you will see this issue go away like it has in just about everywhere else in the world. My degree is not even related to aviation and I have to say that in 25 years, several carriers and another several corporate gigs, my degree has served to fill a box. Nothing more.
I'm using that knowledge now in my own business venture. But in aviation? Zip! Nada!
Get off your college high horses boys and girls. This here is a technical job, there is nothing intellectual about flying.
 
Problem is, you can get a 4-year accredited degree in philosophy online while being drunk every night. I read an article about some mom who did all of the online courses for her daughter, who received the degree. This is one small step up from the Florida States, Ohio States, Penn States, Michigan States of the world.
Graduating from a "good" high school should more qualifying than a degree from one of these schools. A personality test should be the best indicator of job performance.
 
SuperKooter said:
If they made a 4 year degree manditory we could raise wages in this industry.

Yeah up to the SWA pay scale level, which are now amongst the best paid pilots in the industry.

Oh yeah, they don't require a degree.
 
SuperKooter said:
If they made a 4 year degree manditory we could raise wages in this industry.

Totally false. Education has nothing to do with earning potential. How many carpenters, plumbers, electricians have four-year degrees? Very few have a degree, and yet they put RJ Captain salaries to shame.

How about work rules? I am now a commercial real estate developer (best move I EVER made to leave aviation)...I can ask one of my contractors to just come by and sit for three hours, in case I need him--he'll say, "sure man, that'll be $45/hr.plus a two-hour callout fee" Most pilots sit for $1.50/hr doing their airport appreciation tours (which is actually ready reserve, most just dont know it).

Take a look at UAW or IBEW wages, they put RJ Captains salaries to shame.

The only way for pilots to improve their lot is to stick together, and that has proven to be impossible.
 
Palerider957 said:
Take a look at UAW or IBEW wages, they put RJ Captains salaries to shame.

The judges haven't had their chance yet, really ask a Delco, or GM Employee.
 
SuperKooter said:
And look what they have done to their companies,

I agree completely.
 
You guys are sort of missing the point. With deregulation, this industry has become strictly about making money for stockholders. Pilots don't choose the qualifications for hiring other pilots at their airlines. That's up to management and why would management EVER require anything (i.e. 4 year degree) from their applicants that would drive up wages unless the feds required it.

As far as Regionals go, they already know they will get a fair share of 4 year degreed applicants who are simply looking to gain experience. However they don't need it. With the advancement of technology and safety systems in todays modern aircraft, they are afforded "acceptable" levels of safety performance while paying low wages that include first year FO's on food stamps. Now I know many of you guys are going to want to throw up "near misses at LAX" and such. From the airline's perspective however, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND THEIR SAFETY RECORD IS JUST AS GOOD IN THE PUBLIC'S EYES AS IT WAS BEFORE !!!!!

The answer? THE ONLY ANSWER is UNITY. Scream out against unions all you want, but if you allow this industry to become a strictly supply and demand pilot market, I PROMISE YOU, there are way more "youngins" out there willing to do your job for less money than you can possibly imagine.

Are they as qualified as you? Probably not, but Corporate America doesn't care. They've bought High Tech Jets and proven safety programs and would much rather have the lowest paid legal help they can find.

FLAME AWAY!!!!!!
 
Opportunities

All this leads up to the June 2007 hiring boom, with the growing shortage of pilots at the entry leve, the recalls at the legeacys, few pilots being trainined in the military and the drop out rate from pilots pursuing flying as career. Opportunites have never been better for those who elect to stick with a flying career. I am teaching my grandson to be a pilot and I feel he will have fantastic shot at a flying career. He should have his comm Inst SEL by High School graduation time. $100K/yr is a very doable wage, and it is in the upper 5% of the US wage earners.
 
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Dumb Pilot said:
The demand for pilots will increase as the pool of pilots starts running dry, and then you will see this issue go away like it has in just about everywhere else in the world.

Yep, and then the airlines will realize that flying 600-800 people in an Airbus A380 at a clip while paying TWO pilots makes a lot more sense than flying more planes over the same route to shuttle the same volume of people and incurring more maintenance and payroll.

pilotyip said:
He should have his comm Inst SEL by High School graduation time. $100K/yr is a very doable wage, and it is in the upper 5% of the US wage earners.

Sure...and by the time he gets into the industry, $100K will be like making $50K today (or less). He's at least lucky to have you teach him how to fly for free. I suspect for people to get into aviation, the only way they can float into this career is to have people teach them for free. Aviation training has gotten more and more expensive due to economics and fuel cost increases.
 
Nija the 380 is a poor choice of examples, the smaller 787, is the plane of the future, carries about the same as a 767. Passenger traffic continues to grow, demand for pilots will continue to grow. The world wide shortage of pilots will spread to the US by next year.
 
pilotyip said:
Nija the 380 is a poor choice of examples, the smaller 787, is the plane of the future, carries about the same as a 767. Passenger traffic continues to grow, demand for pilots will continue to grow. The world wide shortage of pilots will spread to the US by next year.
The shortage of pilots will be felt in the regionals only. Where in which the pilots will be unable to capitalize from it.
 
No the shortage will spread to all airlines, and we will return to the 2001 hiring trends. Compare competitive minimums at all the airlines in the summer of 2001 and the summer of 2005. Much higher because of an excess of well qualified pilots to chose from. As the well qualifed pilots are hired by the airlines like UPS, FedEx, SWA the experience level of the pool will lower. Then the airlines will redefine their competitive minimums.
 
pilotyip said:
No the shortage will spread to all airlines, and we will return to the 2001 hiring trends. Compare competitive minimums at all the airlines in the summer of 2001 and the summer of 2005. Much higher because of an excess of well qualified pilots to chose from. As the well qualifed pilots are hired by the airlines like UPS, FedEx, SWA the experience level of the pool will lower. Then the airlines will redefine their competitive minimums.

for all our sakes i hope you are right. in fact i am betting on it and if you are wrong i will find you
 
All this leads up to the June 2007 hiring boom, with the growing shortage of pilots at the entry leve, the recalls at the legeacys, few pilots being trainined in the military and the drop out rate from pilots pursuing flying as career. Opportunites have never been better for those who elect to stick with a flying career. I am teaching my grandson to be a pilot and I feel he will have fantastic shot at a flying career. He should have his comm Inst SEL by High School graduation time. $100K/yr is a very doable wage, and it is in the upper 5% of the US wage earners.
__________________
Fly because you like to, if you are in it for the respect, prestige, recognition or money you may be disappointed.

OK, I know there are qualifiers such as "doable" and "may be," but has anyone noticed the irony of the signature to the post following the bolded quote above. Or is it an oxymoron? I was an engineer not an English major.
 
AGuyThatFlys said:
OK, I know there are qualifiers such as "doable" and "may be," but has anyone noticed the irony of the signature to the post following the bolded quote above. Or is it an oxymoron? I was an engineer not an English major.

"Uh, oh... - Last recorded words from space shuttle Challenger."


I dont know you but your signiture disgracing the heros that died on the Challenger is not funny. But maybe I just have a dry sence of humor?
 
All kidding aside, I think pilotyip is right, but I also believe technology will reduce the need for, and number of, highly-skilled aviators, and hence actually drive down salaries/wages (especially in real terms--you've got to account for inflation).

Twenty, thirty years from now, required pilot skills will involve getting the airplane safely on the ground should the autoflight/autothrottle/flight management computer systems all simultaneously fail.

You won't need a college degree to do that. If flying becomes as easy as stepping aboard, starting the engines, taxiing to the runway, punching buttons and monitoring systems, with the computers handling the rest, a high school graduate making $100,000 (in 2040 dollars) will be all you need. It might even be a single-pilot airplane.

Sixty years ago you needed a pilot, copilot, flight engineer, navigator and radio operator to fly a four-engine Boeing Stratoliner carrying 50 people across the country. Now, 400 people can fly across country with only a pilot, copilot and two engines.

Eh...I could be wrong. (Hey, where's my flying car?!)

AGTF
 
Terrain Terrain said:
"Uh, oh... - Last recorded words from space shuttle Challenger."


I dont know you but your signiture disgracing the heros that died on the Challenger is not funny. But maybe I just have a dry sence of humor?

Nope, not meant to be funny, but a reminder that the most planned, monitored and reviewed flight can still go wrong. Very humbling to me.
 
AGuyThatFlys said:
Nope, not meant to be funny, but a reminder that the most planned, monitored and reviewed flight can still go wrong. Very humbling to me.
government negligence should be humbling...that's why there is a constitution.
 
AGuyThatFlys said:
Twenty, thirty years from now, required pilot skills will involve getting the airplane safely on the ground should the autoflight/autothrottle/flight management computer systems all simultaneously fail.

You won't need a college degree to do that.

Nobody needs a college degree to fly an aircraft safely. However, finishing college (while it may have been the most drunken 4 years of my life and it was a great time) proves that a person can set his or her mind to something and complete it. And no high school isn't the same. You are pretty much forced to go to high school. You have to sign up for college, and by doing so you are making a four year commitment (maybe more in the case of some of my friends!). If you finish that commitment, it shows a certain level of dedication, and I think that is a big part of why some companies want a college degree. It certainly doesn't make you a better pilot. But when a company gets six thousand resumes, there has to be a way to filter through the ones who are worth calling. College is one of those filters. I think it's funny that you never hear anyone with a college degree saying that it's B.S. that companies want you to have one before they'll hire you. Take it for what it's worth, but we live in a competitive society. All you can do is make yourself as competitive as possible and then see what happens. Don't hate the playa, hate the game.
 

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