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The DHS wants YOU to get permission to LEAVE the country


Well-known member
Apr 10, 2002
Total Time
This comes from the Baja Bush Pilots. The concern is a proposed Homeland Security rule under public-comment that will require pilots of private aircraft to electronically submit a passenger manifest (along with travel document details) to the DHS prior to a border crossing, and to obtain permission. The Bush pilots' angle on this is that the majority of airports of departure from Mexico don't even have a working phone, much less internet; compliance would be very difficult. Never mind the fact that you already have to arrange for a customs inspection by radio as you approach the US.

I think that the far more dangerous, gestapo-like risk comes from the fact that you'll be required to obtain American permission to leave the country. The last time i remember any of this nonsense, it was with respect to the USSR, East Germany, etc.

This is real folks -- I highly encourage you to voice your opinions both to the NPRM (details below) and to your elected officials. To clarify, this is NOT a bill in congress; DHS already has this power to make such a rule. However, I think its important that congress be aware of our displeasure with it.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ron Polley <mooneydrvr@yahoo.com>
To: mooney mail list <mooney@aviating.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:04:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: critical border crossing Canada, Mexico etc....from BBP
While the Critical Border Crossing Alert from BBP is
specifically addressing Mexico, it will pertain to all
intl crossings. I know many guys are happy with
cruising the pattern staring at their glass cockpit
but for those that have or will be transiting an intl
border, please take action now. Our GA world is
getting smaller before our eyes. With the proposed
changes from HS, it will be even smaller. Please read
both memos dated 9-18 and 9-17 and take action even if
you don't plan on visiting our neighbors any time soon
notification information - 9/18/2007

We have been in contact with Homeland Security and
they have given us more information as to what is
needed for comments as well as how and where to send
this information. See the Alert on the home page.

Support in this subject is critical. We had 1,000
members read this Alert yesterday. All 1,000 need to
reply as well as we need to get the other 3,000
members to join in. We are requesting that all flying
groups copy and send these critical Alerts to all
their members.

In talking to Homeland Security, there are several
points that must be made:

That numbers count. They are not looking for long
statements. 100 short statements make a lot more
impact then 10 long ones. (they want a quick read)

Keep your comments to the point and use respect when
commenting. This is public record and reflects on you
as well as the BBP. Don´t overload them with
suggestions. Keep in mind that this is something that
has to be worked out with other countries also e.g.
The Caribbean, Mexico and Canada.

Make your comment in Word and then run it through
spell checker prior to sending or printing. (cut and

We suggest the following items as comments. Please
put into your own words and add other comments as you
feel would help. Again, keep it short.

(1) That you are concerned about the safety of the
country however, the plan they are suggesting just
will not work because of logistics involved.

(2) That in Mexico, finding a working telephone is
sometimes very difficult. To find an Internet
connection is all but impossible and is not available
at International airports. And to receive a reply via
any medium for permission to enter the US in a foreign
country prior to departure is not possible.

(3) Mexico’s DGAC has communications but there are a
lot of reasons why messages get dropped. This
includes power outages, phone lines down, offices
closed, officials not available, etc. The only
positive way to get a message to the US is via
satellite phone, (which very few have) cell phone
which don´t always have service in the required area,
or VHF radio from an aircraft when within 100+- miles
of the border.

(4) That private aircraft are not scheduled airlines
or charters. We are adversely affected by weather,
winds aloft, passenger personal needs, etc.

(5) That the proposed contact fees to be charged by
Homeland Security will greatly increase the cost of
flying International.

(6) That Customs already has a procedure in place
regarding advance notice, checking passports, etc. of
all arriving passengers, and has physical force and
facilities to detain any person that they feel should
not be allowed to enter the US.

(7) That Homeland Security contact and work with the
Baja Bush Pilots to serve as a spokesman for those
that fly in and out of Mexico in an effort to help
creating a workable situation.

Don’t copy your response to the BBP as it will just
overload our e-mail. It will be public record as to
who responded and what was said.

You can respond via the Internet or by mail.

If by the Internet:

Step 1 Go to http://www.regulations.gov

Step 2 Go to Optional Step # 4 (towards the bottom of
the page)

Step 3 Under the “Category” use the pull down window
to select Docket ID

Step 4 Type in the Docket number which, in this case
is: USCBP-2007-0064

Step 5 You will then get a window indicating the
Docket ID Number. To the right of that page you will
see a “Comments, Add/Due By:” Window.

Step 5 Open that window and you will put your
personal information as well as your comments.

Or, you can submit your comment via regular mail. If
you respond by mail, they will type it into public

Border Security Regulations Branch

Office of International Trade

US Customs and Border Protection

1300 Pennsylvania Ave, NW. (Mint Annex)

Washington, DC, 20220

You can also call direct to: Michael Kaneris @
202 344 1584

Vereb @ 202 572 8700

James @ 202 344 3724

However, written response is the only way you can
officially add comment.

And, a copy to your Senator(s) in your state is
critical. Do your homework to find their address.

And, one more interesting thing. When talking to
Homeland Security, they did not know how we got such a
jump on this issue. They indicate that they just
published this proposal today. Thanks to many sources
including a few members, we were able to get a jump on

Critical Alert…. Proposed Major Changes Crossing
Borders (both ways) - 9/17/2007

(As the BBP understands it)

In a major rule change request, Homeland Security is
proposing changes that will have a dramatic impact on
all private aircraft crossing to and from foreign
destinations including Canada, Mexico, and the
Caribbean. Their proposal includes the requirement
to provide full information of pilot and all
passengers 60 minutes prior to departure from any
foreign country to the US as well as waiting for
permission back from them prior to departing that

This request must be provided by electronic means i.e.
the Internet.

And, this also applies to departing the US. Again, a
full list of all aboard 60 minutes before departure
and permission prior to takeoff when flying out of the
US to a foreign destination.

We believe in the concept if it helps national
security however, this rule will be all but impossible
to conform to. It is hard enough to get a working
phone to call FSS and Customs direct leave alone an
Internet connection to request permission from
Homeland and then wait for an e-mail back from
Homeland for permission prior to departing.

Based on their numbers, there are 138,000 aircraft
which crossed the border in 2006. As you must request
permission both ways and they use an average of 3
persons per aircraft, they will have to do a
background check on 831,354 persons a year or, 2,335
persons every day. (that would be 778 aircraft a
day). If implemented, I see hours of backlog with
pilots and passengers waiting hours for permission at
an Internet terminal somewhere in a foreign country.

The BBP urgently requests that every pilot / passenger
that crosses any foregin border take a hard look at
the attached proposed rule change and make an official
comment. We would urge all to recommend that Homeland
Security contact myself at the BBP office so that we
can discuss logistics that could work. We believe
that the rule maker who wrote this proposal really
does not have working knowledge of communication (or
lack thereof) in Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean.

Please remember that all comments will be public
knowledge and that these comments will be posted and
accessible to anyone with Internet access.

Homeland Security carries a big hammer and gets almost
anything they want. This is going to be a tough one
to win and we expect major changes to come down.
However, with our input, we hope that the proposal can
be changed to be workable. And, if the US gets these
kind of rules implemented, what would happen in
Mexico, etc. imposed the same rules for border

If enacted as written, this proposed rule change could
all but destroy tourism via private aircraft in all
countries including Mexico and Central America.

The full proposal of the rule change is at:


It is critical that all read it and respond to the
docket officially. It is your responsibility to
insure that your feelings are heard on this important
subject. We will provide more Alerts as we learn