teaching how to divert

[PILOTO]

hi everyone! question for all you CFI's. how you teach your student to divert? please if you can explain. thanks in advance.

 

[plunger]

Here's what I do. I'll pick an airpot to divert to an then have the student find it on their sectional. I just tell them to turn to a heading in that general direction. It doesn't need to be exact. Then once the turn is complete, i have them use the plotter to get a heading, distance, and ETA from our approximate location. Our aircraft are GPS equipped so once all that is complete, I'll have them back themselves up with that. We'll also dicscuss reasons for diversions. Hope this helps.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I hate mnemonics, but I was on an aviation newsgroup when someone asked for an acronym for diversions. I made this one up as a joke, but it's turned out to be pretty usable.

The 4 F's

Find it - select the place to divert to
Figure it - estimate the direction that you'll need to fly to get there.
Fly it - Get going
Fine tune it - now that you're heading there generally, take the time to make sure that your estimated heading is correct. This may be tuning in a navaid, the "roll the pencil to VOR" method of determining magnetic course, or just locating landmarks that tell you you're on your way.

(The 5th "F" is for =real= emergencies )

In practice, I try to land at an unplanned airport on at least one dual cross county, planning an in-flight "problem" ranging from bad weather to a system failure.

 

[User546]

I like that "4 F" acroynm midlifeflight!

I teach them:

1) Select appropriate diversion airport
2) Turn in general direction
3) Do a quick estimate of ETA and fuel req't (fuel calcs more important when your towards the end of the trip or the diversion airport is quite a distance away)
4) Fine tune the heading using the VOR/straight edge method
5) Contact FSS and let them know your diverting and updated ETA.

 

[bobbysamd]

Diversions

I would tell my students to take me to XYZ airport. Of course, they should always know their position. Once they've found XYZ airport, I would tell them to turn toward it, measure distance, use IAS and calculate an ETA. Make sure they have enough fuel. Last thing would be to update with FSS.

A great trick I learned from my Riddlers was to convert an ordinary pencil into a plotter by cutting NM divisions in it with a pocketknife. Use the pencil to measure distance and hold it, in that position, to a VOR compass rose on the sectional to obtain magnetic heading. IAS will give a close-enough airspeed to use against distance to obtain an ETA. Of course, VFR cruising altitude rules must be observed. If airspeed and heading are held accurately, the ATA will be very close to the ETA - well within PTS standards and almost as close as figuring in winds and TAS.

Use of navaids should be encouraged, but time should be spent doing diversions by pilotage and ded reckoning only - just as one should do for ordinary cross-country training.

Hope that helps some more.

 

[PILOTO]

thank you guys!!!

 

[Flylo]

I hate mnemonics, but I was on an aviation newsgroup when someone asked for an acronym for diversions. I made this one up as a joke, but it's turned out to be pretty usable.

.

Darn, I can't remember what mnemonics means.

.

 

[minitour]

Step 1: Press the Microphone buttom
Step 2: Say, "Approach (center, whoever), Cessna 123 (callsign) request vectors to ___"
Step 3: Go the way they told you.

 

[User546]

Step 1: Press the Microphone buttom
Step 2: Say, "Approach (center, whoever), Cessna 123 (callsign) request vectors to ___"
Step 3: Go the way they told you.

No way Mini, you must remember everything has to be made as difficult as possible for these guys when they're learning to fly.

 

[bobbysamd]

Nrdo

Step 1: Press the Microphone buttom
Step 2: Say, "Approach (center, whoever), Cessna 123 (callsign) request vectors to ___"
Step 3: Go the way they told you.

What if you're in a non-radar environment? What if your radios have failed. What if the FMS has failed? What if the glass goes? They are installing glass in 172s and 182s these days. These things are known to happen, you know.

 

[JAFI]

Teach your students to always have an "OUT" of a situation. If the wx goes down what are the alternate airport(S - more than one if you can), if the engine fails, which field. Along the flight path, when is or how much fuel (lack of planned fuel at a specific point) cause to divert to a closer airport. When IFR, where is the closest VFR weather. Where/who to call for assistanse, how to find that information (can be part of pre-flight preparation or in flight). The better the preflight preparation the quicker you can decide in flight what/where to go.

If they are not miles ahead of the aircraft, you need to teach them to be so.

JAFI

 

[minitour]

What if you're in a non-radar environment? What if your radios have failed. What if the FMS has failed? What if the glass goes? They are installing glass in 172s and 182s these days. These things are known to happen, you know.

there was a reason for the "" after the post...

 

[Fly_Chick]

During a diversion, I have the student determine why they are diverting. Then have them choose an appropriate airport for the situation. Illness, fuel reserves, inoperative equipment, weather, additional sight seeing? Then I have them think about different airports and the services the other airports provide. For example, looking on a sectional, I can see whether and airport has fuel. If I am between two airports and someone is ill, the student may want to divert to a larger airport with more services and quicker access to medical treatment.

 

[labbats]

I learned to fly in an area of the USA without radar, so you couldn't ask for vectors unless you went to 3000' AGL.

There was a DE where in the city I taught in who told me all the stuff he asks on a checkride. One of the ones that stuck in my head was "ok, missed approach, now what?" If you didn't go over diverting with your student, they would fail. So I just told my students that if you goofed up the approach, try it again. If weather messed it up, divert. Before any IFR flight, I would ask them what the alternate rules were (easy enough), then I'd have them tell me where they would go and why at different places along our route. That's just common sense IFR flying IMO.

 

[Lead Sled]

What if you're in a non-radar environment? What if your radios have failed. What if the FMS has failed? What if the glass goes? These things are known to happen, you know.

Bobbysamd...
Naw, that stuff only happens in the simulator.

'Sled

 

[Vector4fun]

When IFR, where is the closest VFR weather.
JAFI

Man, that was soooo drilled into me when I got my instrument rating, but doesn't seem like it gets the attention it deserves now. Everybody wonders about the NORDO questions, nobody asks "What if the whole electrical system packs up? Or the gyros all tilt? If I've got fuel enuf, I'm going where the sun does shine.

 

[belchfire]

First I would get them to list for me
some reasons to divert...

Then I'd start pulling CB's...especially the
GPS!!! Make 'em fly a damm NDB, enroute!
Heck, I do it on the line..."Ask center for
direct BR"...now everyone but me is confused
(or center is thinking "aw, $hit, him again")
almost noone goes direct to a beacon enroute.


There are many out there glad I never got
my chicken fried instructor ratings. Now I
get to try to straighten out instructors that
just got out of IOE for thier first 121 job...
geeze! They say you can't do training on
revenue flights! Ha!!! (me to new FO...
"ummm, hey dude, where the fuque are we
going???" is often more effective than a
30 minute a$$chewing...but ya have to do it
before center starts asking!)

Someday I'm going to ask the CP for hazardous
duty pay!

(sorry guys and gals, mostly it isn't that bad.
Some days though I wonder...) hehehe,

Belch

 

[Lead Sled]

Teach your students to always have an "OUT" of a situation. If the wx goes down what are the alternate airport(S - more than one if you can), if the engine fails, which field. Along the flight path, when is or how much fuel (lack of planned fuel at a specific point) cause to divert to a closer airport. When IFR, where is the closest VFR weather. Where/who to call for assistanse, how to find that information (can be part of pre-flight preparation or in flight). The better the preflight preparation the quicker you can decide in flight what/where to go. If they are not miles ahead of the aircraft, you need to teach them to be so.

There’s an old saying in aviation that says accidents occur when the pilot runs out of altitude, airspeed, and ideas at the same time. I always taught my students to have a realistic, legitimate and viable backup plan and always have a realistic, legitimate and viable backup plan to your backup plan. (It sounds redundant, but it’s not.) On a clear day, your backup plans might be simply, “We’ll go to this airport and land and if that won’t work we can go to that airport and land.” On those days when the weather or fuel are real issues your backup plans become very critical. What will you do if the visibility or ceiling falls below your personal minimums? Where will you go? What airports are nearby? The 2nd backup plan (Plan C) is used to get you safely on the ground when your original plans have gone “south”. It keeps you from getting in the dangerous position of having to “make up the rules as you go”. That’s the way many pilots have gotten themselves into serious trouble. Always have two workable and realistic alternative plans. When things get tough, the peace of mind they provide is priceless.

To this day, I always carry a satellite photo of the current cloud cover whenever I fly at night or when I expect to have to “play in the weather”. Although the chances are very remote, transport category jet aircraft have suffered total electrical failures in the past. It’s something that we train for in the sims every 6 months. We’re fortunate to be able to carry a lot of fuel. Most of the time we land with 90 minutes in the tanks and at 450+ knots that’s a lot a ground that we can cover to get into VFR conditions in the case of a total electrical failure, at night, in the clouds. That satellite photo is my “Plan C” – in the event of a total electrical failure, all I have to do is look at the photo and point the nose where there are no clouds. Chances are that within 500 or 600 miles I’ll find a VFR airport. (You can tell what my biggest fear is flying jets. You don’t fly them with jet fuel, you fly them using electricity.)
'Sled

 

[User546]

...almost noone goes direct to a beacon enroute.

We still fly direct to beacons (usually outer markers) fairly often, but we use our FMS to do it and never actually track the NDB needle.

Does that count?

 

[JonJohn82]

Remember to have your student note time and exactly where they are at the moment a diversion is needed.