Teaching a CFI candidate

[BoDEAN]

So far we've done 3 grounds on him teaching me the FOI's.

Our last lesson was him flying, and me playing dumb student. He taught me climbs/descents and straight and level flight.

Any tips on what should come next? We fly tomorrow, and he is training for his CFI certificate. Have him teach me landings?

How should I structure our lessons? 3 ground lessons for each 1 flight lesson?

 

[crowbar]

Use your sylabus that your CFI CFI used, it worked for you.

 

[Guillotine007]

when i taught initial cfi applicants, i would start with FOI stuff....then have them progress to teaching me private maneuvers on the ground, then in the air....building towards the commercial stuff later on in the course. mix in GS on FAR's, WX, Aero, systems, aero-med, airspace, and stump the chump from random people...and you should have enough GS lessons to last you a lifetime.

Klein

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI training

I second the suggestion about using the same syllabus your instructor used with you.

Keep hitting the FOI hard. Keep up the reversed roles. Your instructor student should conduct a lesson the standard, professional way, beginning with a preflight briefing, the flight, and a postflight critique. During the preflight briefing, you can feign disinterest, boredom and stupidity, the same as real students do, but you should also offer pointers to improve his presentation. Same for the post-flight, except that you will be critiquing his presentation in flight and his correction of your "errors."

If your trainee is having trouble preparing a lesson, tell him that a good flight lesson is something like a good speech. A good speech begins with an introduction as to what your speech will be about, then the body of the speech, with it concluding by you telling the audience what you just spoke about. In other words, the preflight briefing sets forth what you will be doing today, the flight is actually doing it, and the post-flight is reiterating what you just did.

(By the way, it won't hurt you to fly the maneuvers to the best of your ability. You may find that you aren't flying them as well as you think you are - and you will likely get some quality flight instruction out of the deal!)

You do want to have your trainee prepare lectures on non-flying topics. You do have to provide training in classroom instructing techniques.

Don't forget to emphasize that lesson plans should be prepared using the precise format set forth in the FOI. Finally, emphasize heavily to your student to never stop teaching. Going silent during the practical could lead to a pink slip.

Good luck with your CFI students.

 

[SATCFI]

BoDean,

Make sure you are qualified according to FAR 61.195(h)(2) to provide required training to a first time CFI applicant.

 

[8HourPilot]

How many years dual given does one need to signoff an initial CFI candidte?

 

[SATCFI]

All training provided to an initial CFI applicant, which is to be used to satisfy the training requirements of part 61, must be given by a CFI with at least a 2-year old ticket.

 

[8HourPilot]

Hey BoDean, you got 2 years in this deal yet? Has it been that long already?

 

[wmudriver]

All training provided to an initial CFI applicant, which is to be used to satisfy the training requirements of part 61, must be given by a CFI with at least a 2-year old ticket.

I'm going to partially disagree with you on that. I don't know word for word from the FAR, but an inital CFI canidate can only be signed off by an instructor who has given the canidate 3 hours in the 60 preceding days before the checkride.

Schools get around this by having Joe CFI ,who doesn't have the 200 hours dual give or 2 years, do all the training up until the end of the candiates training when a more experienced instructor finishes him/her up and can legally sign them off.

Don't quote me on those numbers but think they are close.

 

[SATCFI]

FAR 61.195(h)(2) says, that "a flight instructor who provides training to an initial applicant for a flight instructor certificate must..." be a two-year CFI.


If you reread my post, I said that if the training is going to be used to satisfy the requirements for a CFI under part 61 (§ 61.187 and § 61.187) it must be done by a "senior" instructor. In your scenario, the training done by the "junior" CFI doesn't count towards this required training. The "senior" instructor had better log all training required during his 3 hours.

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI instructor

I'm going to partially disagree with you on that. I don't know word for word from the FAR, but an inital CFI canidate can only be signed off by an instructor who has given the canidate 3 hours in the 60 preceding days before the checkride.

Schools get around this by having Joe CFI ,who doesn't have the 200 hours dual give or 2 years, do all the training up until the end of the candiates training when a more experienced instructor finishes him/her up and can legally sign them off.

I instructed at two 141 schools which trained CFI students, ERAU and FSI. Both schools used so-called two-year instructors pursuant to 14 CFR 61.195(h)(2) and no others to instruct CFI students. It is incorrect for any instructor less than what is prescribed in the cited reg to instruct CFI students.

 

[Flymach2]

Hi...

It's important to point out that a flight instructor who serves as a flight instructor in a FAA approved course, (Part 141), for the issuance of a flight instructor rating, can provide that training without meeting the requirements of § 61.195(h)(2). This seems to be the way some 141 schools are able to allow relatively new instructors to provide training to initial instructor applicants. Below is an excerpt from that section.

§ 61.195(h)(3)
A flight instructor who serves as a flight instructor in an FAA-approved course for the issuance of a flight instructor rating must hold a current flight instructor certificate with the appropriate rating and pass the required initial and recurrent flight instructor proficiency tests, in accordance with the requirements of the part under which the FAA-approved course is conducted, and must—

(i) Meet the requirements of paragraph (h)(2) of this section; or

(ii) Have trained and endorsed at least five applicants for a practical test for a pilot certificate, flight instructor certificate, ground instructor certificate, or an additional rating, and at least 80 percent of those applicants passed that test on their first attempt; and

(A) Given at least 400 hours of flight training as a flight instructor for training in an airplane, a rotorcraft, or for a powered-lift rating; or

(B) Given at least 100 hours of flight training as a flight instructor, for training in a glider rating.


So, if that flight instructor meets the requirements of § 61.195(h)(3)(ii), they can give training to initial instructor applicants in an FAA approved course for an initial instructor rating. Whether or not it's a good idea....who knows. Most schools, however, train the initial applicants under Part 61 regardless if they provide a 141 syllabus for other certificates or ratings which would require the aforementioned minimums.

Regards

 

[bobbysamd]

141 CFI instructor v. 61 CFI instructor

§ 61.195(h)(3)

A flight instructor who serves as a flight instructor in an FAA-approved course for the issuance of a flight instructor rating must hold a current flight instructor certificate with the appropriate rating and pass the required initial and recurrent flight instructor proficiency tests, in accordance with the requirements of the part under which the FAA-approved course is conducted, and must—

(i) Meet the requirements of paragraph (h)(2) of this section; or

(ii) Have trained and endorsed at least five applicants for a practical test for a pilot certificate, flight instructor certificate, ground instructor certificate, or an additional rating, and at least 80 percent of those applicants passed that test on their first attempt . . . . .

(emphasis added)

It's important to note this fairly recent exception for Part 141 schools. I am pretty sure that our Riddle and FSI programs in 1989-'92 were Part 141 because both had stage checks at the end. Neither program had self-examining authority, though. I have heard of some Part 141 CFI programs which have self-examining authority. ERAU-Daytona may be one, but I'm not certain.

 

[Flymach2]

Hi...

Yes Bobby,

The section I pointed out was, in fact, added in 1997. Again, most Part 141 training facilities still train their initial flight instructor applicants under Part 61 which is a bit less restrictive in the syllabus and subsequently must follow the requirements under §61.195(h)(2) rather than §61.195(h)(3). Anyway, just food for thought.


Regards

 

[nosehair]

CFI Training

No 3 hours! It is not required to have 3 hours in the last 60 days. That is a requirement for the Private, Comm. & Instrument where you have specific hour requirements. There are no, repeat, no specific flight hour requirements for the CFI, therefore, no requirement for 3 hours in the last 60 days.
61.39 does require an endorsement saying that some training has been done within 60 days - but not a specific number.