Take this one to the woodshed

[CoATP]

From Trade a Plane ...
"CFII/ME AGE 22, 700TT 40ME. Interested in multi PIC/SIC experience. Will
travel and work for free." [Bold type added]

Where do pilots learn that they'll work for NOTHING! When pilots are willing to work for $0 employers will get what they pay for.

This guy [pardon me ... dude] must have learned from his instructor that it's okay to be an unpaid ho. And I'm sure he's telling his students.

Stop it Stop it Stop it.

Sorry about the rant but it ruiined my glass of kool aid.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Just another A$$ Monkey leeching off his parents........Seems like I see more and more dipsh!ts out there everyday. Too cocky, too spoiled, and too many of them!!!!

Retards like this guy will be one of the first ones crying about how little he gets paid when hired at a regional, and will be one of the first ones to see their soul to fly a 737 for scrap wages.

 

[shamrock]

From Trade a Plane ...
"CFII/ME AGE 22, 700TT 40ME. Interested in multi PIC/SIC experience. Will
travel and work for free." [Bold type added]

Somebody should find out where he lives and call and offer him a flying opportunity on the opposite side of the country. Make the offer really enticing, something like a King Air. Tell him the plane will only be available for the next week or two before it's sold but there's a lot of flying to be had so he has to hurry out there if he wants the flight time. When he shows up (after paying for a last minute ticket) tell him the new owner decided to take early delivery so there's no plane to fly.

Lather, rinse, repeat. He might get the point eventually.

 

[Nindiri]

The guy has 40 hours of ME; do you really think somebody is going to hire him for anything? He's doing what everybody else on this board did, he's trying to scrape enough multi together to get his first job

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

The guy has 40 hours of ME; do you really think somebody is going to hire him for anything? He's doing what everybody else on this board did, he's trying to scrape enough multi together to get his first job

That is just making excuses for crap like this. I had 30 hours of multi and got hired to fly a Baron part 135.

Plenty of multi jobs out there, CFI to 1200 then off you go......oh wait, I remember now, nobody wants to fly a light twin, it is beneath the new guys out there. Commercial tkt on Monday...RJ on Thursday...Complain about the crap QOL and pay on Friday.

Corporate job a few years back the owner tried to push some goober on me for the right seat...the kid had tracked him down and offered to work full time F/O on our jet for free. My response was simple, the owner could have his free F/O, but he would need to find a new Captain. I flew the airplane another 2 years for him......

 

[miles otoole]

That is just making excuses for crap like this. I had 30 hours of multi and got hired to fly a Baron part 135.

Plenty of multi jobs out there, CFI to 1200 then off you go......oh wait, I remember now, nobody wants to fly a light twin, it is beneath the new guys out there. Commercial tkt on Monday...RJ on Thursday...Complain about the crap QOL and pay on Friday.

Corporate job a few years back the owner tried to push some goober on me for the right seat...the kid had tracked him down and offered to work full time F/O on our jet for free. My response was simple, the owner could have his free F/O, but he would need to find a new Captain. I flew the airplane another 2 years for him......

So the owner paid him 20 an hour and you flew? LOL. As long as your pride was intact.

 

[Nindiri]

That is just making excuses for crap like this. I had 30 hours of multi and got hired to fly a Baron part 135.

So you found an employer with more money than brains, and no insurance (no insurer is going to touch a multiengine pilot with only 30 hours). It was good fortune for you, but most beginning pilots don't have that kind of luck. Most pilots have to scrape together a couple hundred hours multi to get that first PIC job.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

So the owner paid him 20 an hour and you flew? LOL. As long as your pride was intact.

Nope, 40k was his salary plus bennies. (Not the first bozo, once he wanted to provide professional pilot services for free I figured that meant that he was worthless as a pilot and sent him on his way.)

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

So you found an employer with more money than brains, and no insurance (no insurer is going to touch a multiengine pilot with only 30 hours). It was good fortune for you, but most beginning pilots don't have that kind of luck. Most pilots have to scrape together a couple hundred hours multi to get that first PIC job.

Ram Air Freight loves low time multi guys, the less time the better!
Airnet
In fact any of the 135 freighters.

What is freight and actually learning something about IFR flying beneath the new guys too?

It is dumb a$$ attitudes like this that has helped to drive the pay and QOL in the crapper.

 

[dpilot83]

So you found an employer with more money than brains, and no insurance (no insurer is going to touch a multiengine pilot with only 30 hours). It was good fortune for you, but most beginning pilots don't have that kind of luck. Most pilots have to scrape together a couple hundred hours multi to get that first PIC job.

Someone I work with at AirNet told me he was hired with 6 hours of multi time. There are employers out there who realize that if they hire the right person, some quality training will make them competent in a piston twin even if they don't have very much experience. 6 hours is certainly not the norm but under 100 is not at all unheard of. I think a lot of people don't even try to apply because they think it won't happen. Give yourself some credit.

 

[Nindiri]

Hmmm. Maybe it's different now. When I was coming up eons ago, you couldn't even get talked to for a job with less than a couple hundred multi. Most guys I knew built their multi by hanging out at the airport and bumming rides with guys who didn't really need a copilot but would let you fly the empty legs to build time. If a young pilot can get a job now with 30 or 40 hours, that's great for him, but personally I would still hate to have to fly freight all night. I was fortunate enough to skip that step by making connections at the local airport and building multi time doing free stuff as described above, until the payoff came in the form of a nice comfy corporate gig on a Sabre 65 with one of the guys I had helped out.

 

[dpilot83]

I did it to see if I could hack it...and I really like being able to hack it. I like a good challenge (and maybe some good stories to tell down the road).

 

[Nindiri]

Too much work and I'm way too lazy.

Seriously, though, that's a tough job and I tip my hat to you.

 

[dpilot83]

Too much work and I'm way too lazy.

Seriously, though, that's a tough job and I tip my hat to you.

I made kinda a smart response and you replied with style. My apologies. You have way more experience and room to be talking than I.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Hmmm. Maybe it's different now. When I was coming up eons ago, you couldn't even get talked to for a job with less than a couple hundred multi. Most guys I knew built their multi by hanging out at the airport and bumming rides with guys who didn't really need a copilot but would let you fly the empty legs to build time. If a young pilot can get a job now with 30 or 40 hours, that's great for him, but personally I would still hate to have to fly freight all night. I was fortunate enough to skip that step by making connections at the local airport and building multi time doing free stuff as described above, until the payoff came in the form of a nice comfy corporate gig on a Sabre 65 with one of the guys I had helped out.

Not sure what eons ago is for you.....but I was hired with 30 hours multi 14 years ago. The really bad part is that 14 years ago I got paid more to fly that Baron than the rj guys do on second year pay.

At the time the commuters (regionals were still high paying DC-9 seats then) required 2000 tt and 500 multi to interview with 1000 multi being competetive. Oddly enough, my first commuter gig 12 years ago paid $18 an hour first year for a 30 seat turboprop......the rj pays what? 20, 21? Geez even CFI'ing paid 18 an hour in 1993.

 

[Nindiri]

No sweat, no offense taken by me to anything you or KeroseneSnorter said. Good stuff posted by everyone here.

 

[Captain Overs]

From Trade a Plane ...
"CFII/ME AGE 22, 700TT 40ME. Interested in multi PIC/SIC experience. Will
travel and work for free." [Bold type added]

Where do pilots learn that they'll work for NOTHING! When pilots are willing to work for $0 employers will get what they pay for.

This guy [pardon me ... dude] must have learned from his instructor that it's okay to be an unpaid ho. And I'm sure he's telling his students.

Stop it Stop it Stop it.

Sorry about the rant but it ruiined my glass of kool aid.

Yeah, I guess you'd rather him spend $40,000 on some accelerated flight school that you probably instruct at. People want to take the easy way.

 

[Nindiri]

Not sure what eons ago is for you.....but I was hired with 30 hours multi 14 years ago. The really bad part is that 14 years ago I got paid more to fly that Baron than the rj guys do on second year pay.

At the time the commuters (regionals were still high paying DC-9 seats then) required 2000 tt and 500 multi to interview with 1000 multi being competetive. Oddly enough, my first commuter gig 12 years ago paid $18 an hour first year for a 30 seat turboprop......the rj pays what? 20, 21? Geez even CFI'ing paid 18 an hour in 1993.

About 18 years ago for me. The minimum times you mention sound about right for when I was looking, too. Even the night freight operators were wanting some pretty high times. I think it was due to the fact that it was the back end of a airline downcycle in the eighties and plenty of experienced high time guys were looking for work.

 

[dpilot83]

I was fortunate enough to skip that step by making connections at the local airport and building multi time doing free stuff as described above, until the payoff came in the form of a nice comfy corporate gig on a Sabre 65 with one of the guys I had helped out.

I think there are pros and cons of both ways. Sometimes I want to try every aviation job out there that people might describe as a bad job just for the experience and the stories. Other times I really want a normal life and a decent paycheck. I figure while I'm young and single I'll pursue the first part and maybe take a shot at the second later on. Hopefully I don't regret it too much. I definitely need to work at the networking side of things to prepare for that second door though. I haven't met too many corporate guys hanging out at the FBO at 3 am and if they were there, they were sleeping.

 

[Nindiri]

I think the thing I missed most about not doing the freight thing was the IFR experience. Going straight from flight instructing to corporate jet was nice, but I didn't get a lot of real world instrument and weather experience at FL410, and it showed when I finally went to a regional airline. I had to really work to keep up with the program.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

No sweat, no offense taken by me to anything you or KeroseneSnorter said. Good stuff posted by everyone here.

I just do not understand the new group of pilots coming through now. They (well probably their parents) spent huge sums of money for flight training, spent large amounts of time and effort only to be willing to give it away.

Walking through an express terminal anymore is almost like going to a kegger at the frat house.....cocky idiots running everywhere that really do not have a clue. Had one guy come interview for that F/O position mentioned above....spent 15 minutes telling me how great a school he went to (large well know university) and how it taught him everything that he ever needed to know about flying etc etc.. Anyhow at the time I was SP qualified on our Citation, so we set up for him to go with us on the next trip as an interview ride sort of thing. Same crap in the airplane, tried to tell me what a great pilot he was blah blah, passed control over to him in level flight and he is all over the place, not just the new to a specific airplane thing, this guy was like he was new to IFR period......we thanked him for his time and sent him on his way. Later I heard through a buddy that he was talking all kinds of smack about how I gave him a bogus ride and how squirrly the airplane is etcetc......We are talking about a Citation here! A freakin Bonanza with blowers.

Anyhow that got me thinking about when I was his age and experience, the last friggen thing I or any of my college buds would do would be to brag about how much of a super pilot we were...back then we all shut our mouth and tried to learn as much as possible from the guys that had been there and done that. Hell I still do that when I start on a new job or airplane. Now many of the new generation figures that they have learned all they ever need to know by 2000 hours. I guess you had types like that all the time, just not as many as now. We had a bozo at the airline that would try to impress everybody in the crew room with his flying prowess......You have never seen a bigger idiot than a 737 pilot trying to be cocky in front of 100 other 737 pilots that work for the same airline!!

dang, I guess I am getting old, "them durn young whipersnappers......get off my lawn you maggots!!"

Sorry for the rant, just pi$$es me off when I see bozos sell out the profession like the jerkoff that put the add in Trade A Plane. It is bad enough that we have mgmt. breathing down our necks, we do not need this crap too.

 

[dpilot83]

I think the thing I missed most about not doing the freight thing was the IFR experience. Going straight from flight instructing to corporate jet was nice, but I didn't get a lot of real world instrument and weather experience at FL410, and it showed when I finally went to a regional airline. I had to really work to keep up with the program.

But you did...no small feat I'm sure. My turn to tip the hat. Honestly, I haven't gotten nearly as much instrument experience as I thought I would. I would imagine it's kinda hit and miss. I haven't been here that long (5 months).

Some people say there have been month long periods where they didn't see the ground from just after takeoff to just before landing (an exaggeration I'm sure) but I haven't been fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to hit anything close to that. I've gotten some and it's been good experience, but it's not coming out my ears like I thought it might. I'm really looking forward to some interesting winter weather experiences though.

 

[Nindiri]

Anyhow that got me thinking about when I was his age and experience, the last friggen thing I or any of my college buds would do would be to brag about how much of a super pilot we were...back then we all shut our mouth and tried to learn as much as possible from the guys that had been there and done that.

Excellent post.

 

[Nindiri]

One other good thing about flying freight in light twins is that you learn aerodynamics and how to really fly. I've flown in piston twins with jet guys that I'm pretty sure would kill themselves if they lost an engine.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I think there are pros and cons of both ways. Sometimes I want to try every aviation job out there that people might describe as a bad job just for the experience and the stories. Other times I really want a normal life and a decent paycheck. I figure while I'm young and single I'll pursue the first part and maybe take a shot at the second later on. Hopefully I don't regret it too much. I definitely need to work at the networking side of things to prepare for that second door though. I haven't met too many corporate guys hanging out at the FBO at 3 am and if they were there, they were sleeping.

When I think back about my career to this point, the most fun I ever had was flying a Baron hauling checks, the second most fun job was hauling trash in a 747...but not because of the airplane, We just had fun, flew the trip and saw the world.

I still miss those ratty old Barons.

 

[dpilot83]

When I think back about my career to this point, the most fun I ever had was flying a Baron hauling checks, the second most fun job was hauling trash in a 747...but not because of the airplane, We just had fun, flew the trip and saw the world.

I still miss those ratty old Barons.

Is there anything you wish you would have given a shot, just to see what it was like? I seriously considered packing everything up and going to Alaska to fly a single before I took the job at AirNet and I still sometimes think about it, just to say I did it. There are so many options and so many experiences to be had...it's sometimes hard for me to draw the line between when paying those loans off quickly is worth more than that crazy experience.

 

[Nindiri]

I've never been in a Baron, but I hear good stuff about them. Before I retire I need to fly one.

Most of my piston twin time is in Aerostars. I would think that the speeds and numbers are similar.

The 747 would be fun to fly, but I fear at this point it is out of reach for me.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Is there anything you wish you would have given a shot, just to see what it was like? I seriously considered packing everything up and going to Alaska to fly a single before I took the job at AirNet and I still sometimes think about it, just to say I did it. There are so many options and so many experiences to be had...it's sometimes hard for me to draw the line between when paying those loans off quickly is worth more than that crazy experience.

I always wanted to do my sea plane rating and Helicopter, everytime I start making enough money to spend on stuff like that I get furloughed though!!

Alaska is nice in the summer, Did ANC a bunch in the whale, too freaking cold for me in the winter though. Rather be in the islands mon catching some rays and Dolphin!!!

 

[dpilot83]

I always wanted to do my sea plane rating and Helicopter

Definitely goals of mine as well...add glider and I would be very happy.

 

[Nindiri]

Cool. I love gliders even though I'm not very good at it. I go up to the Chilhowee Gliderport near knoxville whenever I have the time.