T-6 vs. T-37 (which program is better)

[Purduepete]

I have to fill out my dream sheet this month for base location. I have my pilot slot and am deciding between the T-6 and T-37. I understand that the T-6 is superior to the T-37 in many ways, but would like to know if there are any reasons why I should not want the T-6 at Moody, or reasons why the T-6 is the only plane I should want to fly. I really want to track 38s. Will the lack of T-6 gouge hurt me at all? Also, are there more 38s out of the T-37 program? Any insight is greatly appreciated. Also, any T-6 gouge would be awesome. Thanks.

 

[chawbein]

FLY THE TWEET (would you expect anything less with the avatar I have?????)!!!!

Which sounds better "Texan Complete" or "Tweet Complete"???

Seriously, fly the jet. You'll be one of the last to do it. From what I've read (on the internet for what that's worth), the T-6 still has a few bugs that need to be worked out. Plus with the tweet, you don't have to screw with P-Factor!!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The T-37 is very uncomfortable at hi-altitude unpressurized-the T6 is pressurized. The T-37 has much worse climb performance, so you spend more time climbing and less time learning your manuevers. The T6 has a modern glass cockpit (the -38 isn't glass, but it has good instrumentation).
I took my Capt over to look in a T-37, and his first reaction upon seeing the instrumentation, was "Holy **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**!". It is very non-standard, and not user-freindly.

I don't know if the T6 has A/C on the gnd, but the T-37 barely has it in the air. I know Laughlin is starting T6 students in Jan.

Cliff
GRB

 

[CAL to T-1A]

I'm a little biased since I was the Program Manager for AETC for the last four years, but I'd take the T-6 if offered. The only disadvantage is the current syllabus is very compact 9lots more simulators and no more training days than T-37) and you are much more likely to wash back a class. P-factor is minimized by an automated rudder trim system.

The advantages are huge:
- higher performanace
- air conditioned on the ground and in air
- 0/0 ejection seat in case you have a bad day
- pressurized and g-suit
- modern instrumentation
- awesome simulators

There are still bugs in maturing T-6 system, but they are small bugs. You will also have to PCS from Moody for T-1 or T-38 training inducing a three week extension of SUPT.

Best of luck to you. Any more questions, ask away.

 

[Slug]

His baby

John,

A little biased here?

When you in DLF again? I'm down 14-24 Oct........Yippee!


Slug

 

[CAL to T-1A]

CT to PDX and LA for the weekend.

See you next week.

 

[HueyPilot]

There are certainly pluses and minuses for each program, some more obvious than others.

FOR the T-37:

Proven program; less chance to wash back; get a chance to fly some history; have a humble beginning; fly a very challenging instrument jet (hones skills using worst-case equipment); if you can fly the Tweet in any weather, you can fly anything in any weather; you have the distinction of operating the loudest aircraft on the ramp.

AGAINST the T-37:
It's darn hot in there in the summer; you freeze to death in the winter; the ejection seat belongs in a museum; the engines belong in a museum (or a vacuum cleaner); the airplane doesn't perform well under most (if not all) conditions; it will put you to sleep faster (g-loc); you feel weird after flying at FL250 unpressurized

I don't really know enough about the T-6 to tout it's highlights, but obviously it's newer, has a ton of power, better avionics, and is safer to fly. Part of me says go fly the T-6 and learn the equipment you'll likely have in more advanced cockpits. But then again, part of me says go be a "Man" and fly a humbling, challenging old piece of junk so that anything else you go to can only be an improvement.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

T-38C's are glass cockpits and hitting the flightline soon, (vance this year I believe). So, that would be a GOOD reason to go to the T-6. From what I saw of all the drops I was invovled with, there was no distinct advantage or disadvantage to being at Moody when it came to the class drop. I could be wrong there as I didn't pay all that much attention to it. I'd go where you want to be geographically. Which is the shortest drive to the most females who will take care of you after a long week of cramming the books and flying your tail off? That would be your best bet. Go where you know you'll score well when it counts....

 

[furloboy]

I've never flown the Tweet, but have nearly 2K hours in the mighty T-2C Buckeye. Regardless, the Tweet is one of my favorite aircraft because it's one of the very few that is uglier and slower than the Buckeye.

And it's the only military jet that I can think of, into which a fellow can p1ss with both feet firmly planted on the ramp.

 

[T1bubba]

furlo,

Never considered using a tweet as a urinal, but that does bring up an important point...

One of the best reasons to fly a tweet would be if you only have a 1.3 hour bladder. The T-6 can stay up for quite a bit longer.

T1bubba

 

[CCDiscoB]

Jet vs. Prop

I never liked the prop idea. A little too "basic training" for me. Reminds me of getting my PPL. The Navy forced the AF to buy the T-6. We never wanted it. It's too much like the T-34.

Soon we will have pilots who will have never flown the T-37 or the T-38. Can you imagine how many pilots those planes have trained. There isn't an AF pilot on active duty who hasn't flown the T-37 or T-38. You'll look back and be able to say, "I flew both of those legends."

Another random thought, you'll be assigned to (gulp) Moody AFB. I'd much rather be at .....um.....or how about.....never mind.

 

[CAL to T-1A]

Having flown turboprops to include the T-6 and jets, the T-6 flies more like a jet than a prop. The Trim Aid Device (computer controlled rudder trim) takes away most of the effects of the prop to include gyroscopic effects during aerobatics. In addition a computer slows the acceleration of the engine and the advancement of the prop angle to accelrate more like a spooling up jet than a near instantaneous thrust.

We never wanted it is probably correct. However, what we got is a great leap ahead of a T-37 and an even greater leap from a T-34.

 

[Opie-wan]

After being a tweet FAIP and being in the T-6 program at RND since day one, I recommend the T-6. You'll better prepared for T-38s or T-1s, as well as your first assignment, after flying the T-6. You are able to do much more in a 1.4 sortie, and in comfort. The new air conditioning system on the T-6 (one of the fixed problems) works well, even during a pattern-only sortie in 100 degree weather.

 

[Spur]

I say go Tweet! You will find a proven program, proven techniques, and a great, albeit old, airplane. In 20 years you'll look back at UPT and say "when I was learning to fly, we didnt have no stinkin'...."

The tweet is built like a sherman tank. You can bump them into each other, the ground, runway remaining markers, a fence, whatever, and the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing just keeps on going. Gear down? Thats optional. Try landing a T-6 gear up, then jacking it up, dropping the gear, cranking the motors and taking off...

Okay so the A/C and thrust suck, but 1 engine out it'll beat the T-6 any day, and you will be able to breathe O2 while you perform your EP! If you're worried about ejecting, don't. You probably wont be in the envelope anyway, but personally I use a minimum of 425 knots and 25000 ft for ejection. Who needs to eject anyway when you fly over a 100nm by 300 nm soft field landing strip know as Oklahoma. Just don't go to Columbus.

Anyway, gotta make a beer run, but think of this... You can always come back and fly the T-6 as an IP later in life. This is probably your last chance at the legendary Tweet.

 

[CCDiscoB]

Owning a Tweet

I would love to own a Tweet. I imagine the AF will sell them cheap soon. What would I do with it, I would put new engines and avionics in it. It would have a perfect weekend plane to pull Gs and fly into small, out of the way airfields.

Unfortunately even owning a Tweet would be too expensive for the average professional pilot. Not what we get paid these days. But that's a different topic, isn't it.

That could be an excellent business for someone. Buy the T-37s, modify them as I described, then sell them.

 

[T1bubba]

Now THATS funny...

It's not an exaggeration either. One of my friends got to explore the off-road handling characteristics of the tweet- after all, who wants to wait for a taxiway on rollout, right? The jet was fixed that night and flew the next day.

T1bubba

 

[Abe_Froman]

I know this is off topic, but...

T1bubba,

How is it that you've flown the T-34, T-1, T-44, and E-6?

Are you a navy ip that instructed in the tone? But if that's true, then how can you get an E-6 out of the -44?

Just curious,
Thanks.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

my guess:

He selected E-6's out of T-44's when it was still an option in 1995, then got shore duty as a T-1 IP. How'd I do, Bubba?

 

[T1bubba]

Abe,

Nice handle.

Hugh, you're right on except for the year.

Joint pilot training didn't start until 1994. Before that all E-6 drivers were trained in the T-44. I missed the chance to be the first Navy T-1 student and guarantee myself an E-6 by a week (I had just started T-44 ground school when they asked for volunteers). I ended up flying E-6's anyway, then T-1's on my second tour.

All the joint stuff is fun, I've definitely gained a new appreciation for some of the stuff the AF does. Guess that's one of the reasons I'm joining the ANG.

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic...

T1bubba
soon to be C-130J driver

 

[Mud Eagle]

Re: Owning a Tweet

I would love to own a Tweet. I imagine the AF will sell them cheap soon. What would I do with it, I would put new engines and avionics in it. It would have a perfect weekend plane to pull Gs and fly into small, out of the way airfields.

Unfortunately even owning a Tweet would be too expensive for the average professional pilot. Not what we get paid these days. But that's a different topic, isn't it.

That could be an excellent business for someone. Buy the T-37s, modify them as I described, then sell them.

That would be cool -- the J85 engine out of the T-38 (less the burner section) nearly bolts right into the Tweet without modification. It makes it a much better flying airplane and reduces operating costs significantly over the "$85,000-dollar fuel control" J69 that's in there now.

Plus, the entire avionics package would need to be sh*t-canned -- probably more expensive than buying the airplane itself!

A wicked idea, but.....

A few friends I know in the warbird businees are telling me that current DoD regs do not allow outright sale of anything -- Tweets included -- to civilians.

Apprently all of the Tweets and T-38s that are currently operating on the civil registry came from out-of-country sales or are rebuilds from wrecks sold off for scrap.