For the SWA pilots out there, are the majority of the trips you do 3 or 4 day trips? Is there a mix of any day trips or 2 day trips. Overall, I'm just trying to get an idea of what a typical month looks like as far as length of trips and number of days off in between. What is the typical schedule for a reserve pilot and then a junior lineholder? How long can one expect to be on reserve until a lineholder in MCO or BWI? Anything else you can add regarding the schedule/trips will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
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SWA Schedule Question...
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FatesPawn
HVAC Commander
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I'll answer the first part. The average trip at swa is 3.0 days. Some 4 days balanced by turns and 2 days to average 3. Basically lines are 3 on 4 off but the occasional 4 day makes its way in there. Some lines have 2 days and turns, but they go pretty senior for a variety of reasons depending on your domicile.
The line construction target is to start your trips on the same day of the week, so if you're doing a 4 3-day trips, they all start on the same day of the week. Of course there are always a few lines that vary from the norm, but that's it.
Junior lines are weekend lines flying 2 3-days and 2 4-days averaging 16-17 days off. Senior lines are weekday flying with 18-20 days off. YMMV depending on how much $$ you want to make.
-Fate
Slug
SWA Line Swine
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Reserve is 15 days on. Usually done in three 4-days and one 3-day. It pays a minimum of 90 trips (TFPs). In a worst case scenario you should sit reserve no more than 3 or so months at the junior base. More than likely you will sit reserve only 1 month in the junior base; especially with new hires coming in behind you. We only have 8% reserve coverage so there aren't a lot of reserve lines. As for MCO and BWI it is hard to say. A ton of hiring going on right now and not everyone goes to OAK to start out. For the most recent vacancy bid (May start) 16 new hires went to MCO and 32 went to OAK. It appears that in the prior bid most went to MCO and OAK. Those that came on line in April are holding BWI for May. I would guess 1 month of reserve in BWI and maybe 2 in MCO (just a guess though). The most recent vacancy bid (June)had the following F/O bids:
BWI -9
DAL +3
HOU +8
MCO +16 MCO also added 34 Captains (a huge number) good for F/Os
MDW -6
OAK +5
PHX -11
Hope this helps.
Slug
BWI -9
DAL +3
HOU +8
MCO +16 MCO also added 34 Captains (a huge number) good for F/Os
MDW -6
OAK +5
PHX -11
Hope this helps.
Slug
328dude
Still turning two
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On the flip side to that, I was doing 3 on 4 off reserve schedule and 1- 4 day block usualy at the end of the month. I'm no longer on a full reserve schedule which is very nice and ELITT'd my entire month next month to give me 4 3 day's all with an overnight at home. Gives me plenty of room to pick up EF or daily open time. All in all, 26 nights at home for me next month.
This thread should be addressed to General Lee. He knows more about the Southwest Scheds than any Southwest pilot.
Beat me to it!
Great information all....exactly what I was looking for. Any idea of how many hired so far for 2007 and any gouge on the numbers for next year? I'm hoping to make it in a May class and would like to stay on the East coast if possible. How do you think that will play out with the LAS base opening in October? If I'm on line by late June or early July what would your predictions be on base assignment, specifically would LAS be in the mix that early? Thanks for crystal ball gazing for me......just trying to figure out how much fun the next 6 months is going to be!
RedDogC130
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He's right you know. We all fly 10+ legs a day with at least two mandatory LBB overnights every trip for every SWA pilot.
328dude
Still turning two
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You have the preface of either flying on reserve or passing. Granted, they will use you if they get short, but the commuters into that base almost always choose to fly versus the guys sitting at home on reserve. The company will use the commuters first if that's the case then work thier way down to the at home guys.
Been on reserve for 2 month's and got used everyday except one. I commute so it worked better that way for me.
Been on reserve for 2 month's and got used everyday except one. I commute so it worked better that way for me.
Like 328dude said, you fly a lot on reserve. I think after six months of reserve I averaged less than 1 unused day a month. I could hold a line in MDW after 3 months (a year ago, though), but kept reserve lines with mostly 3-day blocks and Sunday PM starts pretty high up my bid list for a while... for every three day block near a weekend, I was pretty much guaranteed a three day trip, so I actually did very little "sitting" on reserve. The Sunday PM starts allowed me to attempt to have a social life on Fridays and Saturdays, yet still be considered a "weekend" to get the extra open time that builds up then.
FR8dognit
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Just to add my .02....ELITT...this is what we use to trade uncovered trips the company has with our own trips. You can start out with FRI-SUN flying and if you are quick on the draw when ELITT opens make your line a LOT better. Started out working every weekend day next month....ELITT opened noon on the 25th...now I am working only 2 weekend days next month. It is extremly easy to Change your schedule around(most months)....if you are not on reserve. Of course there are certain restricted days...ie Christmas, Thanksgiving, ETC....Once you get into it you'll learn all the nuances of the system. Very good for QOL. Hope this helps.
-FR8
-FR8
We're all ready reserve=Crew Optimizer.
GuppyWN
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Any word on how many new hires are projected for next year? Also, if the LAS base is scheduled to open in October do you think new hires could get stuck there for awhile while it gets ramped up? I will finish training in late June/early July and was curious as to how this may play out. Thanks a lot again for the information.
328dude
Still turning two
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640 this year, 700 next. To many variables to know how LAS is going to shape up. Have to wait and see like the rest of us. No crystal ball here.
Flycatcher99
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My personal opinion is that Vegas will be the new OAK, where newhires will likely be stuck at least for a short while. Hard to say how long that "while" will be, but right now, it appears that newhires are typically doing one month in OAK before they can get to BWI, MDW, MCO, or PHX.
How many pilots have been hired at Southwest post 9-11 until now? Someone told me around 2000 but Im thinking that might be on the high end....
Also, what are the retirement numbers over the next 5-10 years.....based on age 60, I know it's going to change but just curious as to what the future retirements look like going down the road. Thanks in advance.
Also, what are the retirement numbers over the next 5-10 years.....based on age 60, I know it's going to change but just curious as to what the future retirements look like going down the road. Thanks in advance.
2099 pilots on the seniority list with class dates post 9/11, including class that started last week. @800 pilots will retire in the next 5 years (age 60).
Ok....so as I try to crunch the numbers and make some sense of this stuff, here is what I come up with...
About 2100 pilots have been hired in the last 5 years which is almost close to half of the entire pilot group of 5400 total pilots (ballpark). The current fleet is about 490 aircraft and the projection is for 600 aircraft by 2009. 800 pilots will retire (age 60 dependent) in the next 5 years. So, if presumably 3000 pilots have been hired in the last 10 years and most of those guys/gals aren't going to be retiring any day soon, can a 5 -7 year upgrade still be sustained in the future for those being hired this year? Enlighten me.....Anyone....Bueller...Bueller....
PS-I'm coming hell or high water, just like to see where a 35 year old new hire fits into the big picture...Thanks dudes.
About 2100 pilots have been hired in the last 5 years which is almost close to half of the entire pilot group of 5400 total pilots (ballpark). The current fleet is about 490 aircraft and the projection is for 600 aircraft by 2009. 800 pilots will retire (age 60 dependent) in the next 5 years. So, if presumably 3000 pilots have been hired in the last 10 years and most of those guys/gals aren't going to be retiring any day soon, can a 5 -7 year upgrade still be sustained in the future for those being hired this year? Enlighten me.....Anyone....Bueller...Bueller....
PS-I'm coming hell or high water, just like to see where a 35 year old new hire fits into the big picture...Thanks dudes.
shearedshaft
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It's simple algebra: a pilot will upgrade at the point, from the date of hire, that the airline doubles in size. Retirements and other attrition reduce the time.
So yes, as an airline gets bigger, the upgrade time will become longer, because it takes longer for a 35 year-old airline (or however old SWA is) to double than it does for a 10 year-old airline.
So yes, as an airline gets bigger, the upgrade time will become longer, because it takes longer for a 35 year-old airline (or however old SWA is) to double than it does for a 10 year-old airline.
firstthird
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It depends on if/how long SWA can maintain an 8-10% growth rate. As long as we maintain that growth rate. at 10% it is about a 6.5 year upgrade. SWA has had that or a similar growth rate for most of its 35 years.
There apparently was a bunch of 'complaining' during the 90's that SWA didn't grow faster when we had the chance. But, maybe that was on purpose. A year or two at 20% makes it very tough to continue at 10% after that. Look at Jetblue. Their growth has slowed considerably, which was expected, no one can grow at 25 or 50% for very long. But the pain it is causing is illustrative.
Sometimes slow and steady is better. There are many good things that come with growth for an airline (upgrades, constantly renewing low pay low tenure FO's, improving QOL for those on property) that are inverse and bad if growth stops or stagnates.
There apparently was a bunch of 'complaining' during the 90's that SWA didn't grow faster when we had the chance. But, maybe that was on purpose. A year or two at 20% makes it very tough to continue at 10% after that. Look at Jetblue. Their growth has slowed considerably, which was expected, no one can grow at 25 or 50% for very long. But the pain it is causing is illustrative.
Sometimes slow and steady is better. There are many good things that come with growth for an airline (upgrades, constantly renewing low pay low tenure FO's, improving QOL for those on property) that are inverse and bad if growth stops or stagnates.
Charlie Brown
Well-known member
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- Apr 23, 2006
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I heard the age 60 thing was only gonna change the upgrade by a month or two though.uke:
That is interesting, but I don't see how it is possible. I would like to hear the argument behind that one. In any case, I hope it is true.
Quiet Flight
I love your mom.
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- Mar 14, 2006
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I think Quimby was being sarcastic...
My guesstimate is the previous 6.5 yr upgrade at SWA will be somewhere in the 9-11 yr range for someone hired in the past or next 12 months. This would of course be after the age 60 change. This takes into account current growth and a guess that it might slow somewhat in the next 18 months. Other factors will/can obviously change these numbers considerably.
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