SVFR question

[roundout]

here's an interesting question brought up to me as i was teaching a student about SVFR. without quoting, the regs say that, at night, to get an SVFR clearance, the pilot must have an instrument rating as per part 61. fairly straightforward. however, the reg makes NO reference to the pilot being instrument CURRENT as per part 61. anybody have any thoughts on whether or not the pilot must be instrument current to utilize a SVFR clearance at night? anyone know what the FAA thinks about this?

thanks a bunch.

 

[nosehair]

"...under IFR or weather conditions less than VFR..."
That's what 61.57 says about recency of experience.
..."the person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight..."
That's what 91.157 says about SVFR.

 

[roundout]

yes, but SVFR is VFR, is it not?

 

[jumper52]

61.57

Roundout,

61.57 does say that if Wx. is IFR or conditions that are "less than VFR" exists, than the conditions of that part apply. Para.(c)
Hope that helps!!

Later

 

[midlifeflyer]

The question is even more interesting than that. 91.157(b)(4) requires two conditions for night special VFR:

(i) The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter; and

(ii) The aircraft is equipped as required in § 91.205(d).

I have not seen either of these interpreted by an FAA Legal opinion or NTSB decision. The wording of the FAA knowledge test questions leave the definite impression that (i) is satisfied with an instrument rating alone.

But I agree with nosehair that instrument currency is also required. The regulation does not say "holds an instrument rating on the pilot's certificate" language that appears in other contexts. Rather, is said that the pilot must more generally "meet the applicable requirements for instrument flight". As far as I can tell currency is one of the "applicable requirements for instrument flight."

On the other hand the equipment requirements are more lax. It doesn't say the aircraft "must meet the applicable requirements for instrument flight" but only that it have 91.205(d) equipment. So the aircraft doesn't appear to need IFR-specific equipment inspections.

 

[minitour]

The question is even more interesting than that. 91.157(b)(4) requires two conditions for night special VFR:
...
On the other hand the equipment requirements are more lax. It doesn't say the aircraft "must meet the applicable requirements for instrument flight" but only that it have 91.205(d) equipment. So the aircraft doesn't appear to need IFR-specific equipment inspections.

I agree with the currency being required, but 91.205(a) says the equipment for the type of operation must be "in operable condition"

Wouldn't that cover the IFR equipment inspections/checks? or doesnt (a) apply since 91.157(b)(4) only lists 91.205(d) and NOT (a) ???

-mini

 

[nosehair]

Look at 91.205(a) General. "...no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S airworthiness certificate in any operation described in paragragraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless that aircraft contains the instruments and equipment specified in those paragraphs for that type of operation, and those instruments and items of equipment are in operable condition."

See, that (a) paragraph says the required "Legalise" with a blanket statement of the obvious. Yes, the 91.205(d) instruments must be "operable".

And while I'm here, let me replay the fine line in 61.57(c) Instrument experience.
"...no person may act as PIC under IFR *or* in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR..."

See? "...under IFR, or "in wx conditions less than VFR" Says it right there. Not just "under instrument flight rules," but at any time under, let's see, that would be 1000 foot ceiling and 3 miles vis, cloud clearance 1-2-3 at a class D or C, huh?

 

[midlifeflyer]

See, that (a) paragraph says the required "Legalise" with a blanket statement of the obvious. Yes, the 91.205(d) instruments must be "operable".

I see the "operable" but I don't see anything that suggests that "operable" in the FARs means anything more than "it works properly," like the "operable two-way radio" that is required to fly even VFR in Class B.

Is a VOR that tracks a radial accurately any less "operable" because someone didn't check it within the last 30 days and log the check?

 

[minitour]

I see the "operable" but I don't see anything that suggests that "operable" in the FARs means anything more than "it works properly," like the "operable two-way radio" that is required to fly even VFR in Class B.

Is a VOR that tracks a radial accurately any less "operable" because someone didn't check it within the last 30 days and log the check?

...I think thats kinda on thin ice with the feds should something happen but darn good point...

 

[FracCapt]

This is plain and simple. FAR 91.157 states that the pilot "meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter" AND "The aircraft is equipped as required in 91.205(d)".

61.57(c) states: Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought—

(i) At least six instrument approaches;

(ii) Holding procedures; and

(iii) Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation systems.

This means that when 91.157 references part 61, 61.57 is included.

To fly SVFR at night, you must be instrument rated, instrument current, and the aircraft must be instrument equipped.