Student with Very Poor English

[AV1ATRX]

Situation:

I have a student (who has been passed on to me from everybody else at the flight school - go figure!) who cannot speak English very well. Honestly, I don't know how he gets by living here. He says he has lived here for about 10 years, but he doesn't seem to grasp much of any kind of conversation. Obviously this doesn't translate well in the cockpit. I've had students before for who English was a second language, but they all seemed to do well. This fella, bless his heart, doesn't seem to understand that he needs to improve, despite being told that by all of us. I know I can't send him to a practical test until he gets better, but that's a moot point because after about 20 hours he can barely get to the runway, and can't perform any maneuvers because he hasn't understood any of his previous flight instruction.

He has been told over and over that he won't be able to fly until his English improves, and he keeps showing up on the schedule. Here's the kicker - he bought a house next to the airport. It wouldn't be a problem if he would try to work on his English, but he doesn't think he needs to. This is a first for me, so any insight would be helpful. He just doesn't understand any of this - period. Not the English words or the point they are trying to make. I honestly don't want to give up on him, but I don't know what else could work.

Anybody else been down this road?

 

[Riddle momma]

Been there and done this:

Gave him an ultimatum to get enrolled in English classes and bring me signed attendance record. Until then we wouldn't fly. He's bought the ground school kit, and is very willing to learn at the school, but eventhough we both speak spanish, I told him he needed to know english. Not just terminology but the "fluent in english" drill. It's hard to to, but if he's really commited he'll listen. If not, he'll just go somewhere else. Bad to loose a student, but at least you would have done the right thing.

 

[AV1ATRX]

Thanks for the suggestion. He's heard it before, but I will just keep trying again. Unfortunately, it's not my decision whether or not to tell him to get lost, despite being the Chief Flight Instructor. Obviously we have some company issues....

 

[jdog78]

Wow, that sounds like a tricky, sad, and dangerous situation. I think in order to get any pilot certificate, one must have a command of the english language. This kid obviously does not so he's wasting time and money on something he will never accomplish until he gets language tutoring. Perhaps if you contacted your FSDO, they would be able to take some sort of action on your behalf (since your school won't).

-j

 

[JRSLim]

Poor english

There's many reasons he should learn English if he wants to fly. Its the FARs, and its for safety. Its bad enough to have a non English employee in Wal Mart take you to the lightbulbs when you're looking for window seals, but there's no room for that in the sky.
Plus it seems you're opening yourself up for a lot of headaches and possibly liability.
My Private instructor was Austrailian - and there were a few times I had to ask him to repeat or phrase something differently. This wasn't really a problem, but with your student, he will suffer from a major barrier of communication -a basis of effective instruction.
It is in his best inerest, and yours to get english down before moving on.

 

[AV1ATRX]

As an update to those who took the time to post a response to the thread: I talked with the student, advised him to take an English course (home study if he had to), why I could not continue training with him, and even got backup from the school. Problem solved! He didn't seem happy, but I don't think he really understood what I was saying anyway. He just kept accusing me of not liking him.....

I can't tell any of you how bad I felt when he left. I've had to tell one other person to stop flight training (for an instrument rating) and it was one of the most difficult conversations I've ever had. That stuff sucks, even though I know it had to be done and it was for safety reasons.

Thanks to everyone who responded!

 

[labbats]

You're the new CFI in the bunch aren't you? Ha! We've all gone through this when we started flight instructing.

You are starving for students, and so the guys who have been there awhile are generous enough to give you a couple of their students! YES! You can teach anyone to fly, bring em on! Well... you only get the bad apples. And they suck. And they complain. And they wash out. It's the business. Soon you'll move up the ranks and throw your students that stink to the new guy too.

 

[AV1ATRX]

Actually, no, I've been instructing for almost 4 years now and have 1000 hours dual given. But this was the first time I've had this particular situation. I got him because none of the "new" guys had any idea how to handle him.

However, when I was the new "guy", I got all the difficult students, so I've been there, done that. I don't do that to any of my new instructors now, because I think it's shameful. It's one thing to help them get a student through, it's another to "pass the buck." I try to use those students as learning opportunities for the lower-time instructors - we discuss the situations at instructor meetings and all work together to solve the problem. So far it works fairly well, but I'm still new at this Chief Flight Instructor thing. It has been an interesting experience so far!

 

[bobbysamd]

English language skills

English-language skills are very important to pilots! Safety can be compromised as a result of poor English. Take it from someone who knows.

Eleven years ago, I was demonstrating a maximum performance landing at Fort Pierce, Florida in a Seminole for two of my Alitalia students. One was flying and the other was observing from the back. Tower was giving instructions to a linguistically-challenged Baron, who was circling north of the field and wanted a landing clearance. The tower had pointed out a Cherokee that cut in front of us and which we had in sight. The Controller kept asking the Baron if he had us. He said he did not. The tower told him repeatedly to turn downwind. This moron did not. He converged on us from the right at our altitude. When it became clear that he might midair us, I reduced power and dived as this "pilot" passed overhead. My students, from Italy, estimated 20 meters of separation. I estimated 50 feet.

This gets better (?!?). Tower told the Baron to set up for another runway, but he set up behind us for our runway. Tower kept telling us he was about to eat up our Six. We landed safely. So did this guy.

Bad enough that he near-misses us the first time. We had him in sight. The second segment was far more frightening because he was on our Six and was not in sight. I filed a NASA report.

There was another time at Fort Pierce where we were cleared into position for takeoff. Another aircraft cut in front of up as we were pulling onto the runway and just launched.
There was some kind of language problem. The Tower apologized to us and promised to write up the incident. I filed a NASA report on that one, too, even though I clearly was in the right.

Finally, Alitalia recognized the importance of its students (and future pilots) having good language skills. I recall that our initial batch of trainees spoke fair English. There were some comprehension problems. Their aviation English comprehension skills were somewhat worse. They improved with time and experience in U.S. airspace. Each succeeding class was a little better. But, finally, Alitalia and/or FlightSafety sent the last class I knew to aviation English school. Not only were the guys drilled in English intensively, they had to write essays. They were also drilled heavily on U.S.-style ATC, as opposed to ICAO. This bunch hit the ground running.

PS-Many flight schools require non-native English-speakers to pass the TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language) exam. That exam is not an adequate test of one's linguistic abilities. I understand there are study guides available for that exam that people can memorize without really knowing English. Just like using ASA books to study for writtens.

 

[bobbysamd]

As an update to those who took the time to post a response to the thread: I talked with the student, advised him to take an English course (home study if he had to), why I could not continue training with him, and even got backup from the school. Problem solved! He didn't seem happy, but I don't think he really understood what I was saying anyway. He just kept accusing me of not liking him.....

I can't tell any of you how bad I felt when he left. I've had to tell one other person to stop flight training (for an instrument rating) and it was one of the most difficult conversations I've ever had. That stuff sucks, even though I know it had to be done and it was for safety reasons.

You did the right thing, not only for his sake but yours as well. Read my post above.