Starting A/C Management

[421Driver]

Greetings everyone, back for some more advice. I read a lot on the board about 91 and 91/135 jobs, but I'm looking for a pro/con list of why not to run a 91 A/C on a 135 cert (I don't need the convincing ). Here's the facts, Customer looking for an AC and manager to get him in a jet. I'm just a lowly BE20 driver, and the person he's speaking with actually runs the 421 around. Looking for a good aircraft for 500-600 mile trips, with an occasional 2000 nm straight shot. Ideally, we'd crew the plane and manage it, but what would it take to get us insured in

-Lear 35
-Beechjet (oops, Hawker 400) I know it can't make the 2k
-IA 1125
-Falcon 200, 20F-5

I've got 2700TT, 750 ME, 300 ME Turbine
Co's got 1500TT, 500ME, 80 ME Turbine

I'm assuming we'd need a contract guy to ride aong with us until we got our time up in type.
Plane would really only need to carry 2 Pax and 2 kids, so the Lear is looking pretty good. Now for the real question, what are some pros and cons of running the plane 135? Potential owner says, "Mr. Pilot, I can MAKE money of my plane if we operate it 135!" Mr. Pilot thinks "D'oh, too much work" and says "I'll look into it, sir". So what are some good, real reasons to not do it, something to get the owner to believe us.

Thanks to all!

 

[CorpLearDriver]

Greetings everyone, back for some more advice. I read a lot on the board about 91 and 91/135 jobs, but I'm looking for a pro/con list of why not to run a 91 A/C on a 135 cert (I don't need the convincing ). Here's the facts, Customer looking for an AC and manager to get him in a jet. I'm just a lowly BE20 driver, and the person he's speaking with actually runs the 421 around. Looking for a good aircraft for 500-600 mile trips, with an occasional 2000 nm straight shot. Ideally, we'd crew the plane and manage it, but what would it take to get us insured in

-Lear 35
-Beechjet (oops, Hawker 400) I know it can't make the 2k
-IA 1125
-Falcon 200, 20F-5

I've got 2700TT, 750 ME, 300 ME Turbine
Co's got 1500TT, 500ME, 80 ME Turbine

I'm assuming we'd need a contract guy to ride aong with us until we got our time up in type.
Plane would really only need to carry 2 Pax and 2 kids, so the Lear is looking pretty good. Now for the real question, what are some pros and cons of running the plane 135? Potential owner says, "Mr. Pilot, I can MAKE money of my plane if we operate it 135!" Mr. Pilot thinks "D'oh, too much work" and says "I'll look into it, sir". So what are some good, real reasons to not do it, something to get the owner to believe us.

Thanks to all!

You don't make money flying your airplane under 135, you offset expenses. To really make money flying charter, the airplane has to be flying almost constantly, in my own estimations about 800 hours a year. To do that with one crew is crazy. Maybe not for the owner, but the crew will burn out very quickly and possibly start making mistakes or just plain quit.

The thing is, the owner will want his airplane when he want it. If the airplane is on a charter, he'll either have to wait or charter another airplane. Some operators have agreements for this. A good one will. Keep in mind that operational control is transfered to the operator, the owner has to call them to use his airplane. Many owners don't get that in their head.

We once put our airplane on a 135 certificate, though it was against my better judgement. Everyone (save me) was convinced we would MAKE money. The company we went with didn't have our type on the certificate so we had to fly proving runs with it. One thing we did do was require the operator to pay the operating expense for the proving runs, may want the owner to. My suggestion would be to find an operator that already has your type or the type you plan to get, on their certificate. With your low time, it could present a problem if the feds don't like the way you fly the airplane.

We pulled the airplane because the owner's needs and use of the airplane directly conflicted with the operator's. When we came back from a long trip for the owner, the operator would be trying to sandwich in charters so they could generate some revenue. The problem was, they were all short trips, better suited for a turboprop and the fuel costs were eating up any money we would "make." The operator wasn't a bad operator, it just didn't work well with our needs.

A well managed charter operation is something to behold and there are very few out there. Do a lot of research on any operator you are considering and speak with owners of airplanes they manage before you make a decision.

Insurance will be another issue with as little time as you have. You can still get it I think, but it will cost you much more that it would with someone who has say 5,000 hours and some time in jets.

This is all my own observations and experience and pretty much my own opinions. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Hope it all works out well for you.

 

[bigD]

Many owners don't realize that charter customers aren't as likely to treat his expensive jet in the same caring manner that he would. He should be ready for the extra wear and tear on the interior.

 

[Headwind]

What ever your insurance will cost for part 91 (industrial aid) it will be three times more for part 135 (commercial). It will take many charter flights to off set the extra insurance cost.

HEADWIND

 

[G100driver]

In addition, lears do not "make money" for their owners. Their DOC's are too high to offset any real expenses. In the end you will be lucky to making $200.00 an hour. Figure that with 2 sim events a year for both pilots. Yes, both. You do want to take a day off, right? Do not forget the costs of a contractor so you can watch the birth of your children. You think the charter company will pay that? Think again.

The only way you can truly make money, errrr, significantly offset your expenses is to have a new airplane with a warranty.

Charter in a lear is a joke at best. You will get hosed.

 

[421Driver]

Thanks for all of the excellent info. No idea if anything will come of this, but it's great to have such a wealth of experience on the board.

 

[421Driver]

Can anyone run Conklin de Decker on

Beechjet
Lear 35
P180
King Air 200

Looking for DOC, Range, Aquisition Cost, Range with seats full.

Thanks!

 

[Headwind]

Can't help you with that but you can go to betbrokers.aero and get lots of information. Go to compare jets or compare turbo props. The jets & torbo props are on seperate pages.

HEADWIND

 

[Capt1124]

Omnijet.com has operating cost infromation, which I believe is derived from Conklin DeDecker.

In reality, airplanes are fuel and MSP for a few months, then a small repair, then more fuel and MSP, then something huge, either scheduled or unscheduled.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

Can't help you with that but you can go to betbrokers.aero and get lots of information. Go to compare jets or compare turbo props. The jets & torbo props are on seperate pages.

HEADWIND

Sorry, this is a URL, I found nothin like this on the web

 

[421Driver]

Try http://jetbrokers.aero Probably just a typo.