SP Ferry on a non SP BJ?

[Senior_Citizen]

I was questioned about that today, I think it has no sense, but I didn't know the all the FAR regultions and exceptions.

Does any one know if some big Bizjet (no SP certified) is authorized to be ferried as SP.

 

[semperfido]

can u b more specific?

 

[Senior_Citizen]

Was a trivial discussion, some guy near our hangars insist on that a Ce750 and also the GV don't require copilot when ferried, we do that but only with us CJ2 (SP certified), we operate p.91, but if we have 2 engines, 2 fadecs, why not have 2 guys at the cockpit?, humans fails more than machines. But he insists, also he said that certain models of a/c only require co-pilot when carring passengers on board, but also some mid-zise bizjet flying for cargo also fly SP. I'm not 100% sure (only 99.999998%), but I think that this guy lies, or know something I don't.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

SP -> Single Pilot

 

[Senior_Citizen]

That we know about FAR 91 & FAR 135, under 91, our CJ2 can fly SP, but under 135 must have a FO certified on board, we know some A/C flying p.135 with only one crew, but are few (C208, KA90, PC12), also in some areas is banned due to concerns about hijacking.

But FAR regulations are large, and the amendements, are much more.

 

[semperfido]

Was a trivial discussion, some guy near our hangars insist on that a Ce750 and also the GV don't require copilot when ferried

gv always two.there may be a few citations, but every other biz jet i can think of require two pilots all the time. simply read the flight manual.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Only SP jet aircraft I know of are Citation 501, 551, 561, CJ1, 2, (don't know about the 3) and the RA-290S. I think the guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Imagine that.....a pilot that's wrong and won't admit it!!

There are something like 3 Lear 24/25's that are certified SP, and like 3 guys that are legal. But.....that is special circumstances, for special aerobatic shows. Aircraft are operated in the utility category and no pax allowed on board without a second pilot.

Ask him to show you something in writing, and until he does, tell him he's full of $hit.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

Thanks

That's I was thinking

 

[WMUSIGPI]

What he may be thinking of is required crew only on board for a special flight permit. However the required crew is 2 pilots.
Also there is no such thing as a Citation 561. There are 560's that have an individual LOA to be single pilot just like some 500 and 550's but that applies only to the specific tail number in the LOA not any plane in the fleet. The CJ3 is single pilot capable also if the pilot holds a CE525S type (Not the CE525, that type requires an SIC). There are no single pilot Lears, Challengers, Gulfstreams, Hawkers, Boeings. (I can't speak to that airshow thing with the Lear)
Also even with the airplanes that can be flown single pilot if the pilot didn't demonstrate single pilot on the checkride he will have a limitation requiring an SIC. Take a look at all the airline Beech 1900 Captains. Yes, it could be flown single pilot but not under FAR 121 so they all have that limitation when typed at the airline because none ever do the checkride without the SIC.
It's just a matter of time until this is all irrelevant thanks to the lawyers and insurance companies anyway. We either will find ourselves back flying with 4 pilot crews or phased out completely and everything will be a UAV.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I just assumed that there was a 561 since they call a SP II a 551 and the SP I a 501. I didn't even know that you could fly a 560 SP until I ran into a guy in Macon, GA, that came into the FBO SP in one. Sure enough, they're out there.

The LR-JET SP cert isn't something you can just go out and get. The one guy I know for sure that has one has a special certification in a special plane from the FAA in a LR-24 for airshows.

 

[FracCapt]

Does any one know if some big Bizjet (no SP certified) is authorized to be ferried as SP.

No. Period. If an aircraft is type certificated for 2 pilots, there is no waiver in the US for it to be operated single pilot.

 

[O-Line]

No. Period. If an aircraft is type certificated for 2 pilots, there is no waiver in the US for it to be operated single pilot.

Actually there is, it's FAA Waiver 4050 (current version K). It's the waiver that lets qualified pilots fly the 2 pilot Citations (i.e., 500, 550, 560) SP.

Was a trivial discussion, some guy near our hangars insist on that a Ce750 and also the GV don't require copilot when ferried

Now this guy is obviously an idiot. You must have the required crew onboard (Pilot & copilot) anytime you are attempting to fly a CX or GV.

Now having said that, things are possible under a "Ferry Permit" (a Special Flight Permit is usually a one time deal for MX, i.e., the gear won't come up and you need to ferry it stiff legged to a MX facility) and planes have been flown SP under a Ferry Permit. Good luck though trying to find a Fed that will sign off on an SP Ferry Permit. First thing he'll ask is why don't you just get an SIC? Second thing he'll ask is how can you prove it's safe to move that aircraft Single Pilot.

IOWs it's a 2 pilot airplane!