Somethings to consider

[BeenThereDoneIt]

ProFrac......your perspective is certainly OK...but when you shoot down 100% of what the opposition says, then I start to get worried. You seem to have very little agreement with those who oppose this TA. When 2 groups get THAT polarized, bad things always come.

Pay seems to be the biggest complaint I have seen. While I don't work with you guys, I agree that the pay that was negotiated SUCKS, and you are locking it in for what will probably be 8 years. A "yes" vote tells the country that your worth as a professional pilot isn't very high. I'm just sayin'......

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Oh, and ProFrac.....you did kinda make a personal attack on this guy (even though you denied it). In fact, you made several of them.

 

[ProFracPilot]

ProFrac......your perspective is certainly OK...but when you shoot down 100% of what the opposition says, then I start to get worried. You seem to have very little agreement with those who oppose this TA. When 2 groups get THAT polarized, bad things always come.

Don't worry about us BTDI. We're big boys and know how to argue like adults.

Pay seems to be the biggest complaint I have seen. While I don't work with you guys, I agree that the pay that was negotiated SUCKS, and you are locking it in for what will probably be 8 years. A "yes" vote tells the country that your worth as a professional pilot isn't very high. I'm just sayin'......

You are at Avantair, correct? Or formerly of Avantair? Tell me, exactly what pay has YOUR pilot group negotiated from management, pay that they are now contractually obligated to pay you? I'm just sayin'....

Whatever you're being paid, it is at the whim of your management. Further it was given to you on the backs of the NJ pilots and the work they did amending their contract 5 years ago. I understand your concern that the pay bar may be lowered for those who do not have a contract. But I'm guessing you've not read our TA, either. This TA (our first, by the way, in case you need a reminder) has to be viewed in it's entirety. There is so much more to it than just compensation (which is an increase for every pilot, regardless of what others may be telling you), with important work rules and provisions that have been much too long in coming.

As one of our pilots said - who, by his own admission HATES this TA - We need to ratify this contract so that we can continue to fight another day. And the fight will go on - now, with work rules and protections to help our cause.

 

[wacoflyr]

Profrac, with respect, we don't own this clown. Avantair parted ways with him almost a year ago, and since then he hasn't worked for any real aviation company. Every real Avantair pilot I have spoken to about your TA wishes you guys the best.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Thanks WF.

 

[993_Pilot]

...I think at least 50%+1 of our pilots are not the gambler you are...

While that may or may not be true, I would say that a much greater than 50% are unsatisfied to very unsatisfied with the contract. While some may be voting yes anyways, they are just doing it because they are tired of the fight, not because they think it's good... Not exactly an overwhelming endorsement. I will be anxiously awaiting to hear what the count is on March 31st/April 1.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Pro....you guys certainly can argue like big boys...well....I thought that until I saw your Union Prez come here and make threats to those who oppose the TA. That being said......

I should have been a little more specific. The pay COMBINED with such a long lock-in by the Company is going to kill you guys. I have owned businesses, and I have worked for them. If I were the owner....I would have pushed the Contract Extension Clause VERY HARD, just like FLOPS Management did. That way I can lock you guys in to a lower payscale for a VERY long time. If I were the employee.....I would be giddy that I got "something" in a recession. Frac...I see both sides...but I totally understand what the Company is up to. 3 years max is all the Contract I would commit to. By that time the recession will be over (unless Obama borrows us into oblivion), and you will be in a great position to bargain again. Either way....good luck with it.

As far as negotioting with Avantair, I quit them last April during the recession. The pay didn't meet the promise. I was just told that union cards are about to be sent out there, but the Captains will mostly vote "no" because they are making "ok" money and the FO's will vote "yes" because they make less than garbagemen and cabinet makers. I have a strange feeling that is the climate at FLOPS too.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Pro....you guys certainly can argue like big boys...well....I thought that until I saw your Union Prez come here and make threats to those who oppose the TA. That being said......

I should have been a little more specific. The pay COMBINED with such a long lock-in by the Company is going to kill you guys. I have owned businesses, and I have worked for them. If I were the owner....I would have pushed the Contract Extension Clause VERY HARD, just like FLOPS Management did. That way I can lock you guys in to a lower payscale for a VERY long time. If I were the employee.....I would be giddy that I got "something" in a recession. Frac...I see both sides...but I totally understand what the Company is up to. 3 years max is all the Contract I would commit to. By that time the recession will be over (unless Obama borrows us into oblivion), and you will be in a great position to bargain again. Either way....good luck with it.

As far as negotioting with Avantair, I quit them last April during the recession. The pay didn't meet the promise. I was just told that union cards are about to be sent out there, but the Captains will mostly vote "no" because they are making "ok" money and the FO's will vote "yes" because they make less than garbagemen and cabinet makers. I have a strange feeling that is the climate at FLOPS too.

...Yawn.

 

[T-1GUY]

[ I was just told that union cards are about to be sent out there, but the Captains will mostly vote "no" because they are making "ok" money and the FO's will vote "yes" because they make less than garbagemen and cabinet makers. I have a strange feeling that is the climate at FLOPS too.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Options has any FO's....

 

[skyismyoffice]

I don't think Options has any FO's....

Sure they do...they're just all on furlough.