SOE on Turbojet type rating

[SoundBarViolatr]

Wanted to get your feedback on logging SOE and PIC:

1) SOE Time logged as PIC: Can SOE time be logged as PIC time, since he is acting in the capacity of a PIC, sole manipulator, under the supervision of a PIC? If not, how should it be logged? dual only?

2) PIC Time logged after SOE Complied with but still on certificate: Can an individual continue logging (supervised as in above) PIC time after completion of the SOE training requirement if the SOE limitation is still on his certificate?

Can anyone offer expertise, experience or guidance to someone that does know? I don't think pilots are too crazy about it when you apply to have a limitation removed and the feds issue the certificate but makes copies of your logbooks and tell you that you MIGHT be contacted.

Thanks fellas!

SB

 

[Turtlesfly]

deleted

 

[avbug]

SOE?

On what certificate?

What limitation being removed?

You hinted at the FAA copying your log and suggesting you'd be contacted...for what? Why was your logbook copied?

What are you talking about?

You asked if someone can give advice or information to someone who does know...why would someone who knows need the extra input? Your post doesn't make sense.

 

[ackattacker]

A difficult question. I don't know the definative answer, but the safe answer is to NOT log it as PIC until the limitation is removed, but to make a note in the remarks that you were performing the functions of PIC under supervision. The regs are clear that you cannot "act" as PIC until the restriction is removed.

61.157.(g).6.(i) May not act as pilot in command of the aircraft for which an additional rating was obtained under the provisions of this section until the limitation is removed from the certificate; and

(ii) May have the limitation removed by accomplishing 15 hours of supervised operating experience as pilot in command under the supervision of a qualified and current pilot in command, in the seat normally occupied by the pilot in command, in an airplane of the same type for which the limitation applies

I understand the argument that the time can be legally logged PIC because you are a) sole manipulator and b) hold a type rating. I do think that would hold up, because the FAA has always kept a distinction between "acting as PIC" and logging PIC. However, I would make sure you note the exact circumstances in the remarks. That *should* keep the feds off your back.

Personally, I didn't log any of it PIC because I felt my turbine PIC time should reflect only time while I was actually "in command" not just "in control". I don't want any tough questions on interviews.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

It CAN be logged as PIC however you are NOT the PIC of the flight per FAR 1 (it would NOT count as PIC for most airline apps) You are logging PIC based on FAR 61 to meet the OE times needed to remove the limitation.

 

[Loco Gringo]

For my CE500 type SIMUFLITE gave me a hand out on the specifics and was very clear. I logged PIC and had the pilot I flew with sign the remarks, at the given time FSDO reviewed my log book and removed the restriction no problem not a big deal. As far as how to count the time I do not know anybody that really worried about the PIC time however, if you are interviewing at a airline and your PIC time is close it might be an issue. I would get I clarification from the FSDO.

 

[avbug]

Never seek clarification at the FSDO level. They're not authorized to give it to you, and anything they tell you isn't binding. The FSDO isn't authorized to interpret regulation.

 

[Loco Gringo]

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[Loco Gringo]

Never seek clarification at the FSDO level. They're not authorized to give it to you, and anything they tell you isn't binding. The FSDO isn't authorized to interpret regulation.

what? yea right try telling that to your POI/PMI they will be happy to hear that you are going to go over there heads!!

 

[ackattacker]

what? yea right try telling that to your POI/PMI they will be happy to hear that you are going to go over there heads!!

Unfortunately avbug is right. It's a messy situation. Some POI/PMI's might not like it but you are perfectly within your rights to bring questions regarding interpretation of regs straight to Oklahoma City. In fact that's what you should do. The FSDO is like a police station. They don't make the law they just enforce it.