SMS manual?.

[G3G4]

Can anyone recommend someone to write up an SMS manual for our operation? We are just a small part 91 company flying a g5. We want something simple and don't need anything complicated. I checked into Baldwin aviation but really think that is over kill for our operation.

Any recommendations?

Johnny

 

[TigerDriver]

I'll second the Baldwin sentiments....overkill and way overpriced. I spoke with the fltplan.com SMS contact recently, 1 (one) flat rate per year for everything.

 

[CorpCaptain]

For any SMS program, doing it internally versus contracting it out is a balance between cost and risk. How well do you understand the requirements yourself versus how much you can pay someone else to write it. The greatest downside to using a consultant is the tendency of many of us to use "canned" or semi-canned solutions that look good, meet the requirements, but fail to fit the company and reflect their actual operations. If you use a consultant be certain that you can fully live up to the requirements that end up in the manual. There are plenty of them out there, and most are willing to point you in the right direction if you get lost.......Good luck!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You will spend just as much time working with someone to write it for you then you will just buying the protocol (you have to anyhow to register) and writing one yourself following their template.....its really not difficult, especially for a small department. The audit process is pretty straightforward and the whole thing is a decent exercise in getting yourselves organized, if anything. I did ours by myself, including the audit, in a few months....and I am well known to have the attention span of a 3yr old when it comes to aviation busy work (or anything?...)

Nobody knows your operation like you do, and fitting into the ISBAO protocols is pretty easy for most halfway normal departments.

Baldwin...agree way overpriced and overkill. Nothing like that is needed. Monthly fees to access a website?..yeah....:laugh:

 

[G3G4]

We bought the ISBAO Manual template and I have it and was gonna do it myself but the ISBAO Template is way too large and too restrictive. I have just never written a manual before and have no idea where to start. I wanna keep it as simple as possible and still be able to pass an audit and meet their requirements. Like I said this is more a formality for our company. We have been flying for many many years without one and having one in place is not gonna make us any safer. We look at any trip whether it is a simple domestic trip or an international trip the same. Everyone here does a good job of doing their homework and making sure everything is safe. Having this manual is not gonna make us any safer. I can see where this could benefit a larger flight department with lots of pilots and airplanes but doesnt really work for our small flight department.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

We bought the ISBAO Manual template and I have it and was gonna do it myself but the ISBAO Template is way too large and too restrictive. I have just never written a manual before and have no idea where to start. I wanna keep it as simple as possible and still be able to pass an audit and meet their requirements. Like I said this is more a formality for our company. We have been flying for many many years without one and having one in place is not gonna make us any safer. We look at any trip whether it is a simple domestic trip or an international trip the same. Everyone here does a good job of doing their homework and making sure everything is safe. Having this manual is not gonna make us any safer. I can see where this could benefit a larger flight department with lots of pilots and airplanes but doesnt really work for our small flight department.

You do realize the large portion of your SMS is in fact your Ops Manual?.....which I assume you currently have one?

You don't have to use the ISBAO one. Every Ops Manual I have seen will work into their template/protocols pretty easily.

I'm not against just having someone do it, and I looked a handful of places (honestly didn't care about the cost that much) and as I said, it was just as much work.

Yes its largely a box checking exercise, but it need not be complex or painful. A bunch of us here have used the same auditor, and while he does not give it away, he fully understands that a 5 person, one airplane type operation does not need a complicated SMS.

Good Luck either way!

 

[G3G4]

After a SMS manual is written, is it a REQUIREMENT to have it audited? or is the audit just a look over by someone who knows what these countries wanna see in their SMS manual?? I heard it costs a couple grand just for an audit? am I correct?

 

[MaxTorque]

Required by whom?
If your main concern for having an SMS is the fact that several ICAO countries are requiring one, there remains some uncertainty on how they will determine that. Almost all indicate an ISBAO certificate will suffice and that would necessitate an ISBAO audit. Otherwise you may be leaving your crews to debate/negotiate with ramp inspectors while poring over whatever documentation you have on the aircraft as the FAA does not plan to get in the business of certifying part 91 safety management systems.

But considering audits in general... Suppose your company or corporation has solid understanding of bizav ops and management throughout its leadership structure - great! But there are some that don't really have a handle on what the AD is up to down there under Travel, or Facilities, or where ever they have the flight department in their structure. They are the ones that appreciate having a third party with expertise come check things out. And in the first case, it is often simply a matter of protocol or "best practices" to get audited. Now in the bad old days, an auditor would be selected and who knows what kind of criteria he or she used to make their assessment. At least now with ISBAO, you have the playbook up front. The standards are there in black and white and if they get something a little off or even completely wrong, there is a provision where industry feedback through the advisory board will correct it.

So if you are looking to operate your flight department safely and actively manage risk, good on you. If you are able to incorporate what is becoming an internationally recognized SMS structure in the process, even better as you will expand the places you can go. How you go about convincing these other countries you are SMS compliant is up to you. You may find that an ISBAO certificate makes sense but it is merely the culmination of the important effort expended up front to establish a safe operation.

As to the cost of an audit, $1K/day for an experienced professional with specialized skills is a nice round number; 2-4 man days on site with a day either end for prep and report writing plus expenses and it isn't hard to see how you can get to $3-10K depending on size and complexity.

If you are just looking to check the box, it may be a frustrating experience. If you keep your eye on the real objective and have a handle on why things are the way they are, it may go down a little easier.

MT

 

[sunchaser]

I looked at ISBAO and SMS last year. As a 125 cert holder we had a POI that flat out said he would not sign off on it. We could use an SMS program however he would not sign off as approved. Reason is the FAA still can't agree how to make it work themselves. If you are looking for something that says you have an SMS to go over to Europe, I would just use Fltplan.com It is 3000 a year and intergrated into the rest of their website. Big reason is, lets say the FAA does regulate SMS it might be completely different or more restrictive. If you write a program you may end up rewriting it in a few years if it becomes reguladed... Let Fltplan.com deal with reg changes. Just a thought

 

[volunteer]

http://www.casolution.com/

I used this operation to write both our ops manual and SMS. Great people, easy to work with, and reasonable cost.