Skywest...serving Birmingham?? What the?

[FlyingSig]

It's amazing to me that so many guys at the majors don't see the foolishness of allowing the substandard wages at said "regionals" (plainly national carriers flying smaller aircraft) to perpetuate. It's only going to get worse.

I'm just curious how the paycheck of the regional pilot is "allowed" by mainline pilots? Who negotiates those rates? Oh yeah, Skywest doesn't have a union...oops.

Seriously though, it's a legit question.... just how is it that pilots at majors "allow the substandard wages"?

You get what you negotiate and why do you need me to negotiate for you...can't you do it yourself? (as a pilot group)

 

[Anaconda]

so...can one of you skywest guys confirm my earlier posting about the prescence of comair gates in salt lake?

 

[Smoove Ride]

negative.... no comair brutha's (or gates) out here.
but who know's? give it another year or two and all the delta connection carriers will be running each other over trying to park their planes. -sr.

 

[skydiverdriver]

To FlyingSig

Sir,
To answer your question, the mailine pilots help write the regional's contracts by the way they help, or fail to help them during negotiations. Just like Delta pilots helped Comair pilots very little during their recent strike, they allow Delta to pay Comair pilots far less, which makes their expantion more likely. ALPA has a policy against allowing alter-ego airlines to exist, and so do most mainline agreements. However, when the airlines create or purchase smaller airlines to feed them, the mainline pilots don't do anything to take care of this problem. That is how they allow the regionals to be a lower paid alter-ego airline.

 

[FlyingSig]

Re: To FlyingSig

Just like Delta pilots helped Comair pilots very little during their recent strike, they allow Delta to pay Comair pilots far less, which makes their expantion more likely.

I'm guessing you're not a Comair pilot, because if you were, then you would be well aware of how much money Delta pilots spent (out of DALPA dues money...not Comair dues money...and not the MCF) setting up strike centers for Comair. And you would be well aware of how many man hours were spent delevoping software to monitor Comair struck work, man hours standing by the phones to track potential struck work, and man hours spent updating the Delta pilot group daily via code-a-phone and email. If you were a Comair pilot you would also be well aware of all the Delta pilots that spent time walking the line and all the personal money donated to the family awareness fund above and beyond the ALPA assesments.

If you are a Comair pilot and were aware of how much Delta pilots did to help the Comair pilots with the strike and still made the above statement then I really don't know what to say.... I guess nothing could please you.

or fail to help them during negotiations.

I was not aware of a request for aid by the Comair MEC or the Comair Negotiating committie to DALPA? Did the Comair MEC want Delta's help? I doubt it...

However, when the airlines create or purchase smaller airlines to feed them, the mainline pilots don't do anything to take care of this problem.

The Delta pilots, nor the Delta MEC own Comair. We do not have a voting seat on the Delta BOD. Just how is it that DALPA or any Delta pilot could change the way Delta Air Lines runs its business? Should we have not negotiated the best possible contract so as to "leave some money for Comair pilots"? Why would ANY pilot group not go after the best deal possible?! No thanks Delta...we don't want United plus...just give us a little raise but make sure the Comair guys do real good, ok? Gimme a break....

ALPA has a policy against allowing alter-ego airlines to exist, and so do most mainline agreements.

Besides the fact that you probally send too much of your paycheck to the RJ Deffense.... are you aware of the differance between ALPA and Delta pilots?

The DALPA contract is what allows Comair to even carry Delta passengers. The dreaded-harm-my-career scope section is what allows Comair to carry Delta ticketed passengers on airplanes OTHER than Delta mainline jets. If the DALPA contract did not allow for this then Comair would have to find its own passengers (or another major airline who's contracts ALLOW them to carry THIER passengers.... I'm not saying they couldn't, but do you think it would be as big as it is now?

Wholy-owned alter-ego thing? I agree, it sucks....but you guys are picking a fight with the wrong side. Even if you forced ALPA to merge the lists....how do you force the corporation to acknowledge that list/single contract/payscales/workrules/etc... If they don't sign their names to that contract they don't have to honor it. Besides, management just loves lawsuits against unions.

Delta pilots created scope in their own interest so ALL flying couldn't be code-shared away. Comair pilots and ALL REGIONAL pilots should be doing the same thing. Right now Comair is getting scopped out of their own flying (ironically, which they took away from ASA) by non-union Skywest because Comair forgot to put their own noose on a scope clause for 70 seat and under flying.

So really all this ranting I'm doing boils down to this: Regional pilots negotiate their own contract. If they vote yes on the thing, then it's their own fault what they get paid. Mainline pilots shouldn't have to negotiate (read: pay for) for another airline's contract.

It is not the fault of a pilot that works for Brand A (major) that a pilot at Brand B (regional) gets paid substandard wages.

 

[dispatchguy]

I live in DFW in a crashpad full of ASA crews (I'm an eagle dispatcher). They are all very torqued (putting it mildly) that SKW is coming in and essentially stealing what they see as their flying.

I understand big brother's DLs reasoning. They dont want to have another hub meltdown like they did when CMR shutdown CVG for 3 months last year, and one way they see that not happening is by diluting the hubs. The only problem is that I dont see CMR starting to fly out of SLC (nor ASA for that matter) anytime soon.

If, for example ASA did strike, and shutdown hub feed for ATL and DFW, my question is, would SKW be able to come in and fly those routes? I remember the big fight over what was struck work during the CMR strike; since SKW pilots are nonunion, would they be able to come in and fly some previously-flown ASA citypairs?

Another thing I see, if DL is preparing for the possibility of an ASA strike by doing the dilution, is putting both carriers (or even all three) in a given city pair so that if one did strike (say ASA since theyre next in negotiations), DL can still have feed over that citypair from the other connection carrier. While I dont know if 2 connection carriers can fly in the same city pair, if they can, that would really negate a struck-work argument...

 

[ifly4food]

Re: Re: To FlyingSig

Flying Sig,
Hate to burst your bubble, but Skydiverdriver is a Comair pilot who knows a lot more about Comair issues than most of us do.

 

[sabreliner]

Yes, us ASA guys are a little torqued about having our hub invaded, while we sit and go no where. And by a non-union carrier no less! (Whose pilots enjoy their good working conditions and ASA/Comair pay rates - wonder where those came from???)

However, struck work is a very big deal, and judging by the Sky West guys I've run into in DFW (all very nice guys) I doubt that they would do something that low. Since most other carriers are ALPA, or another Union, it would make it VERY difficult for them to get jobs further down the road. That sort of thing follows you for the rest of your career. Also, when Comair was on strike, the Sky West management I think said they wouldn't ask their guys to do that.

So, while we are very worried about SKYW taking DFW flying while we get nothing, I'm not too worried about them if we have to stirke.

Rrrrggg...

 

[FlyingSig]

Re: Re: Re: To FlyingSig

Flying Sig,
Hate to burst your bubble, but Skydiverdriver is a Comair pilot

IF4F,

Then reread my post...the 2nd paragraph....I thought the possiblility existed, I just wasn't aware one could make such a statement.

 

[skywav8r]

Thanks for the kind words sabreliner

Your right, none of us want to fly struck work or hurt any of our fellow aviators. The union issue here is about a 50/50 deal. We missed it by a handful of votes last time and management knows that if they made just one crewmember fly struck work that a union vote would surely pass. Most of us understand the 'territory' issue in DFW and are sympathetic to your feelings, but the talk around here is that we are just the first carrier to start the integration process. Besides, the pilots don't really have any say in where we fly anyway, thats big daddy Delta's job. (There kinda like a mother-in-law, they tell you where to go and how to get there!!!!) Someone had to be the first to step into anothers homeland and I think we will soon be seeing Comair planes out west and then hopefully some ASA planes. The latest rumors have Delta trying to get back into the L.A. area again. With such a strong Skywest/United Express base in L.A. I think other Delta Connection carriers may get the work. Think Big....Skywest, Comair, and ASA coast to coast!!! As far as our good working conditions and pay, yes we do benefit from your hard work but we just match whoevers the highest at the time of our negotiations. Our policy manual was the culmination of a lot of hard work from SAPA. They took the best of many other airlines policy manuals and piled all that info into one. Combining our matching pay scales, good policy manual, and the constant threat of a union on managements doorstep, you can see why we are a fairly happy pilot group. And yes, union or not, 99.9% of us will do anything humanly possible to help out if you guys strike. Happy flying and good luck at the round table when the time comes.

 

[ifly4food]

Skywav8r,
Glad to hear you are against flying struck work, but the sad fact is that we won't be seeing ASA westward expansion and we will see SKW eastward expansion until the ASA contract is signed. Though we understand that you supported CMR's strike and hope you will support us should one become necessary, we also realize that you can't refuse to fly if you are told to do so. This makes you dangerous to our cause.
This isn't personal between us as pilots. It's about what Delta is using your company to do to us as a pilot group... whipsawing us a year before contract talks even open.
Don't expect to see any ASA pilots jumping for joy when you land in cities we used to serve. Again, it's not personal, but we can't help but feel a little resentment to get bumped out of our lines and see them go to another company.

 

[skydiverdriver]

to flyingSig

I'm sure anything I would have to say to you would just upset you, so I think I'll remain silent on the issue. I don't believe any of your arguements make any sense, and trying to counter them would be a waste of time.

I will, however, say that if you wish to have a resonable discussion with someone, you might try to refrain from insulting them. I'm sure you are an intellegent person, as you fly for Delta, and I would be pretty rude to insult yours. I would hope to get the same consideration from you, sir. But, since I don't believe I will, I think I will just leave this one alone. I believe you are blinded by your own beliefs, and nothing I could say would have any affect on you. I wish you good luck and a long career with an excellent carrier.

 

[FlyingSig]

skydiverdriver,

I went back and reread my post to try and figure out where I insulted you. I'm sorry if you took it as a personal attack but other than the fact that I wondered if indeed you were a Comair pilot I couldn't find the insult to you. Your profile doesn't say who you work for and while I've read many posts by you in Comair related subjects, I've never actually seem you say yes I work for Comair.

Your orginal post bothered me, that's why I responded. You said Delta pilots didn't help with the Comair strike. I personaly sent a check to the Family Awareness fund above and beyond the ALPA assesment. Many of my peers did the same. It sure feels like a slap in the face to then be told that we didn't help.

I personally scoured over my bid packet to make sure I wouldn't be doing struck work. I called the code-a-phone every day. I'm not asking to be thanked, it was my duty as an ALPA pilot to do so. I just didn't appreciate the insinuation that my efforts weren't enough.

I don't mind agreeing to disagree, but like you, I just don't like being insulted.

 

[skypine69]

How do those ASA guys feel now that Skypest bought them?