SkyWest and part-time work

[fatdumbandhappy]

Are SkyWest pilots allowed to fly part-time on the side for other operators/flight schools if you don't exceed the monthly/yearly max flight time???

 

[Russ]

The few that I know who do fly elsewhere as well didn't bother to ask. They didn't log the time, strictly for the money.

 

[Junkflyer]

I've heard that Skywest quits paying for the year once you hit the 1000 hours.

 

[sstearns2]

It's kind of a don't ask don't tell policy. Technically Skywest owns all of your 1000 (RJ) or 1200 (EMB) hours for the year.

Yes, you don't get paid after you hit the limit.

Scott

 

[Erlanger]

I wouldn't follow the don't ask, don't tell policy. If they were to find out or something happens to you like and accident or incident or violation; in addition to being fired you'll have to deal with the FAA and it will most likely be career ending for you. Skywest will let you fly on the side but you have to inform them first and get approval. You can expect to fly 1000 hours a year at Skywest in the RJ regardless whether you are a line holder or not and probably close to 1200 hours if you're in the bro. There won't be much additional flying on the side for you to do anyway.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why not hold out for a job that pays enough to be a pilot for a living? It is rediculous that SkyWest, or any other airline, expects pilots to give 100%, show up for work all polished up, when their pay is so rediculously low that it requires the pilot work two, or three, jobs to make ends meet.

Don't think you are getting into aviation and in a few years you will be making all this money. At ASA, we finally get some guys on the 70 seater making near $100,000 and guess what - you are being trained to replace them for around 1/5th of their pay.

Someday when you finally upgrade to Captain and begin earning what you are worth there will be a bunch of people right where you are now eager to take your job for a fraction of the pay you earned.

If you do it, be sure you get enough rest and that you are safe out there. The airline's scheduling system is rigged to where most of your time remaining after 300 hours away from base in a month is there for rest. You will learn that rest is important to your performance and fatigue is dangerous - more dangerous than drinking and flying in tests that have been performed.

"Don't ask don't tell" about drinking, or fatigue, is bad policy. How about working to improve this profession so that working two, or three, jobs is not required to equal the standard of living enjoyed by an employee of a fast food resturaunt?

 

[Dubya]

Why not hold out for a job that pays enough to be a pilot for a living? It is rediculous that SkyWest, or any other airline, expects pilots to give 100%, show up for work all polished up, when their pay is so rediculously low that it requires the pilot work two, or three, jobs to make ends meet.

Don't think you are getting into aviation and in a few years you will be making all this money. At ASA, we finally get some guys on the 70 seater making near $100,000 and guess what - you are being trained to replace them for around 1/5th of their pay.

Someday when you finally upgrade to Captain and begin earning what you are worth there will be a bunch of people right where you are now eager to take your job for a fraction of the pay you earned.

If you do it, be sure you get enough rest and that you are safe out there. The airline's scheduling system is rigged to where most of your time remaining after 300 hours away from base in a month is there for rest. You will learn that rest is important to your performance and fatigue is dangerous - more dangerous than drinking and flying in tests that have been performed.

"Don't ask don't tell" about drinking, or fatigue, is bad policy. How about working to improve this profession so that working two, or three, jobs is not required to equal the standard of living enjoyed by an employee of a fast food resturaunt?

So, if i'm reading this correctly, you are saying that SkyWest is paying it's 700 captains 20k per year?

I'd say you are very bitter or very stupid.

W

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Hey, I forgot... What is 1st year pay at ASA?

 

[SkyNation]

bear in mind that the FEW who will time out at 1000 hrs. of block are probably CREDITING upwards of 1500 hours. 1500 x 19.02 = $28530. add at least 5 or 6K in per diem to that since you'd be gone a TON, and a first year FO would make over 30K for the year. now, I've never heard of a first year FO doing that, only a few captains. if a 4th year CA did it he'd make about 95K plus per diem, he'd top 100K. that's BEFORE Performance rewards checks, which at the current average would add another 5K or so.

 

[rtmcfi]

bear in mind that the FEW who will time out at 1000 hrs. of block are probably CREDITING upwards of 1500 hours. 1500 x 19.02 = $28530. add at least 5 or 6K in per diem to that since you'd be gone a TON, and a first year FO would make over 30K for the year. now, I've never heard of a first year FO doing that, only a few captains. if a 4th year CA did it he'd make about 95K plus per diem, he'd top 100K. that's BEFORE Performance rewards checks, which at the current average would add another 5K or so.

What do those guys do with all of their time off?

 

[DoinTime]

bear in mind that the FEW who will time out at 1000 hrs. of block are probably CREDITING upwards of 1500 hours. 1500 x 19.02 = $28530. add at least 5 or 6K in per diem to that since you'd be gone a TON, and a first year FO would make over 30K for the year. now, I've never heard of a first year FO doing that, only a few captains. if a 4th year CA did it he'd make about 95K plus per diem, he'd top 100K. that's BEFORE Performance rewards checks, which at the current average would add another 5K or so.

I have never seen a first year pilot be able to pull down an average of 125 hours of credit a month at any airline. Being on reserve for awhile and flying crap lines usually prohibits such paycheck performance.

 

[DoinTime]

So, if i'm reading this correctly, you are saying that SkyWest is paying it's 700 captains 20k per year?

I'd say you are very bitter or very stupid.

W

Well one thing is for certain their -700 captains aren't making any more than their -200 captains.

 

[SkyNation]

I have never seen a first year pilot be able to pull down an average of 125 hours of credit a month at any airline. Being on reserve for awhile and flying crap lines usually prohibits such paycheck performance.

that's why I said, the only people I've ever heard of timing out are a few captains.

however, 125 hours of CREDIT per month is very doable on reserve or as a junior line holder if we are short of pilots. such is the case now. I get calls on most days off from CS asking if I want to fly for Jr. Man pay.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Jr. man flying on NXXXEV tail numbers while more than 300 ASA pilots sit around with their thumbs up their butt - wow SkyWest knows how to be efficient.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

I would venture to say the average SKYW pilot is not going to get into the 90th percentile on the magic mark. Your really have to work A LOT to block 1000 hrs per year. FWIW, I'd like to get back into instructing again because I thought it fun (not PVT/INS/COM, mind you....less obtrusive stuff), and not for the money.

As for this "How about working to improve this profession so that working two, or three, jobs is not required to equal the standard of living enjoyed by an employee of a fast food resturaunt?". Yup, I'd like more money--a lot more actually for it equals some degree of freedom, and compared with the majors we will never make as much, but gimme a break; the average Captain is making more per capita than probably 80% of America--the average FO (other than first year, probably a little more as well). Learn to use your money a little wiser and use good analogies to press for more cash. The "I'm almost on welfare" conundrum is tired...

 

[tomcash]

Learn to use your money a little wiser and use good analogies to press for more cash. The "I'm almost on welfare" conundrum is tired...

I have a company that is hiring and I like people with your give-all attitude. Are you interested?, you can flight instruct too.

 

[~~~^~~~]

As for this "How about working to improve this profession so that working two, or three, jobs is not required to equal the standard of living enjoyed by an employee of a fast food resturaunt?". ... gimme a break; the average Captain is making more per capita than probably 80% of America--the average FO (other than first year, probably a little more as well). Learn to use your money a little wiser and use good analogies to press for more cash. The "I'm almost on welfare" conundrum is tired...

Average income for SLC residents is $47,977 in an area where 84% of the residents do not have a college degree. The median home price is $183,398. So I disagree with your precept that your First Officers earn more than the average and further, I believe they are very underpaid for flying a 82,750 pound jet international. As they scramble to get jobs which displace higher paid members of your profession, you encourage them.

How would you feel if the ASA pilots used ALPA to underbid you and used the power the union has to lock in scope which stripped you of your flying? Instead, we are holding the high ground on CR700 pay rates and we are encouraging you to come and join us in raising this profession. We have work to do to keep from underbidding your CR2/7/9 rates for 50 seat flying and we have steadfastly resolved to join the race for the bottom, whether it be Comair, or SkyWest, who we are being whipsawed against.

No, I'm not on welfare, no where close. But your FO's qualify - I plugged in First Year pay, with a wife and one child and qualified for:

1. Basic Food Program
2. Working Connections Child Care
3. Medical Care
4. Children's Health Insurance Program
5. Medicaid
6. Early Childhood Education Assistance
7. WIC, and
8. Telephone Assistance

 

[CFIT]

Average income for SLC residents is $47,977 in an area where 84% of the residents do not have a college degree. The median home price is $183,398. So I disagree with your precept that your First Officers earn more than the average and further, I believe they are very underpaid for flying a 82,750 pound jet international. As they scramble to get jobs which displace higher paid members of your profession, you encourage them.

How would you feel if the ASA pilots used ALPA to underbid you and used the power the union has to lock in scope which stripped you of your flying? Instead, we are holding the high ground on CR700 pay rates and we are encouraging you to come and join us in raising this profession. We have work to do to keep from underbidding your CR2/7/9 rates for 50 seat flying and we have steadfastly resolved to join the race for the bottom, whether it be Comair, or SkyWest, who we are being whipsawed against.

No, I'm not on welfare, no where close. But your FO's qualify - I plugged in First Year pay, with a wife and one child and qualified for:

1. Basic Food Program
2. Working Connections Child Care
3. Medical Care
4. Children's Health Insurance Program
5. Medicaid
6. Early Childhood Education Assistance
7. WIC, and
8. Telephone Assistance

So a new SkyWest pilot that makes 19/hr is doing worse than a new ASA pilot that makes 19/hr, minus 2%?

Did ALPA help you with this math?

Just keep in mind, ASA may not have any 700's in the near future from which to compare......

 

[COOPERVANE]

Good post, but:

"How would you feel if the ASA pilots used ALPA to underbid you and used the power the union has to lock in scope which stripped you of your flying? Instead, we are holding the high ground on CR700 pay rates and we are encouraging you to come and join us in raising this profession. We have work to do to keep from underbidding your CR2/7/9 rates for 50 seat flying and we have steadfastly resolved to join the race for the bottom, whether it be Comair, or SkyWest, who we are being whipsawed against."


I hope you mean resolved NOT to join the race to the bottom!! I will not do it!!

 

[COOPERVANE]

"Just keep in mind, ASA may not have any 700's in the near future from which to compare......"


Some of you Skywest guys seem to be as giddy as a schoolgirl at the prospect of taking airframes!

real nice brother!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

So a new SkyWest pilot that makes 19/hr is doing worse than a new ASA pilot that makes 19/hr, minus 2%? ...

ASA has no new pilots. We have senior pilots with longevity, or we used to, until you replaced them.

 

[SkyNation]

yeah, it's all our fault. after all, a newhire pilot at SkyWest should really just show up to class and say 'gosh guys, I just really feel like we owe it to the guys at ASA to do something for them. so, I quit.'

puhleeeaaassseeee

and even if someone did, it wouldn't amount to a squirt of piss.

direct your bitterness and sour grapes where they belong, SkyWest pilots didn't put you in this situation


(already expecting the vehement replies...don't you guys get bored with this tired argument?)

 

[sweptback]

direct your bitterness and sour grapes where they belong, SkyWest pilots didn't put you in this situation

Of course SkyWest pilots put us in this situation. The only reason flying is being transferred is because you guys agreed to do it for less than us.

You guys seem to think your issues only affect your pilot group -- that is unfortunately not the case.

 

[DoinTime]

Average income for SLC residents is $47,977 in an area where 84% of the residents do not have a college degree.

That may be the average income but I would guess that MEDIAN income is closer to $28 - $29,000 if not lower. Its funny how a few of the mega-rich folks in a neighborhood can make the homeless people look like they are doing pretty well.

 

[SkyNation]

Of course SkyWest pilots put us in this situation. The only reason flying is being transferred is because you guys agreed to do it for less than us.

was that before or after 'we' agreed to buy you instead of Mesa? break it down for me how that all worked out, and where you'd be now if Mesa had bought ASA, among the other scenarios? are you telling me things were just hunkey-dorey before then and all ya'll sat around grinning ear to ear about how great life at ASA was?

oh yeah, and please include in your explanation of how SkyWest pilots (instead of SkyWest management) has put you in your current situation (which wasn't prevented by the all-mighty ALPA) a reason why you are undercutting us and lowering the bar with your 50 seat rates?

see how ridiculous this all is? for crying out loud, what the hell did you expect when DAL sold you off?

this was all done at the management level. it's not our pilot groups fault any more than it is yours.

 

[strega7]

Of course SkyWest pilots put us in this situation. The only reason flying is being transferred is because you guys agreed to do it for less than us.

You guys seem to think your issues only affect your pilot group -- that is unfortunately not the case.

And right back at your pilot group and ALPA when you guys allowed Pay-For-Training! If you say that was a different time and place, I'll say the same about our position a few years back when UAL was in bankrupcy. Each pilot group will almost always do what it needs for it's self. Very few do what is right for the profession, us included.

 

[sweptback]

was that before or after 'we' agreed to buy you instead of Mesa? break it down for me how that all worked out, and where you'd be now if Mesa had bought ASA, among the other scenarios? are you telling me things were just hunkey-dorey before then and all ya'll sat around grinning ear to ear about how great life at ASA was?

This has nothing to do with "you" agreeing to buy ASA. Obviously your 70-for-50 pay agreement has affected others in the industry besides SkyWest... I just don't see why you can't admit it.

I do love though how the SkyWest pilots seem to have license to piss on the ASA pilots because "they" bought ASA. Like it or not, we're here now, and we're not going to roll over just so you guys can continue your 2-year upgrades indefinitely. Every SkyWest pilot I've met in person has been quite professional and mindful of the big picture, and I realize that it's just a minority on here that are quite selfish.

oh yeah, and please include in your explanation of how SkyWest pilots (instead of SkyWest management) has put you in your current situation (which wasn't prevented by the all-mighty ALPA) a reason why you are undercutting us and lowering the bar with your 50 seat rates?

Our contract was industry leading in 1998 when it was signed, until shortly after when ACA one-upped us. This is how things are supposed to work.

Our rates may be low now, but that is because we have not had a raise since 2002. I bet if you were to extend our DOS pay bumps past 4 years we would be higher than the almighty SkyWest rate. Unfortunately they don't let you do that while negotiating a new agreement.

see how ridiculous this all is? for crying out loud, what the hell did you expect when DAL sold you off?

this was all done at the management level. it's not our pilot groups fault any more than it is yours.

Once again, this has little to do with DAL selling us off. Even before we were sold the mantra in contract negotiations was to stay cost competitive and "zero net gain." Our management would be rubbing the SkyWest payrates in our face regardless of whether or not we were owned by them.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Isn't it amazing that my post suggesting that a pilot hold out for a decent job and if they can't, at least be careful about flying fatigued immediately put SkyNation and his ilk on the defensive.

Look, we as a profession should not be defending sub standard pay - we should be working to improve it. That means holding out for something better. These airplanes don't fly themselves and it does require a little more smarts, training, talent and judgement than operating the timer on a deep fryer.

 

[sweptback]

And right back at your pilot group and ALPA when you guys allowed Pay-For-Training! If you say that was a different time and place, I'll say the same about our position a few years back when UAL was in bankrupcy. Each pilot group will almost always do what it needs for it's self. Very few do what is right for the profession, us included.

Yes, PFT was a mistake. I was not here when that happened and I can't defend it. However, it was fixed a long time ago. Now ASA is one of the few airlines that not only pays full guarantee during training but gives a single occupancy room, plus there's no training agreement to sign. That is, if we ever hire again.

 

[SkyNation]

Fins,

I have read your posts for a long time on this board. They used to be very insightful and informative to me. More and more, they seem to be bitter replays of a grudge you have against SkyWest pilots.

I, like everyone I know, wanted nothing to do with buying ASA. We didn't have any say in buying you guys any more than you guys had a say in being sold or who bought you. I wish you all the best, but placing on this blame on the pilot group I think is shortsighted and/or misdirected anger that should be directed at your management, DAL, and good old fashioned business. I'm sure you would agree that 'reasonable people can disagree' on a given issue. The 50/70 TA at SkyWest is crap and of course we would all like to get more for the variants. I'll say again, though, that I make more than ASA 70 FOs who have two more years in than I do. 3 different FOs at ASA have told me so, quoting their earnings. So, if SkyWest publishes a lower hourly rate that they can use to shop for business with major partners, yet with our structure of rules, Perf Rewards, etc. we end up making more on our paychecks than those with higher rates, what fault is assigned to us?

are you suggesting that an aspiring pilot should not come to work for SkyWest because he is obliged to some 'code' that says he should work for companies who lagger, stagnate, shrink, etc. just because they are ALPA? should people go work for Mesa? They're ALPA.

I'm asking because I don't know. I've been at SkyWest two years. at one point have could I or should I have done you folks at ASA this 'solid,' and what would it have been? are you suggesting I should have never ever come to work here? what is our crime? I understand the sour grapes that result in being sold and what has happened since, but how is that my fault?