Skybus!

[abxdx]

Well the summer is almost over! How has the first few months gone for SKybus? Are they destined to fail or is it the next Southwest?


http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2007/09/so-just-where-a.html

Looks like things are going good!

 

[WalterSobchak]

Here's to hoping they drop off the face of the planet...soon.

 

[abxdx]

Thier website shows they are hiring a OCC supervisor...

 

[shooter]

Here's to hoping they drop off the face of the planet...soon.

ditto!

 

[Kohflot]

Thier website shows they are hiring a OCC supervisor...

Do they make commission on all the sunscreen and other trinkets they offer for sale on the floor?

 

[bgaviator]

So why do y'all hope it drops off the face of the planet? I know pilots are bitching because of the pay....but the amount of places people can go to dispatch 121 isn't all that big, so the more airlines that are in business, the more opportunities we all have.

 

[propsarebest]

So why do y'all hope it drops off the face of the planet? I know pilots are bitching because of the pay....but the amount of places people can go to dispatch 121 isn't all that big, so the more airlines that are in business, the more opportunities we all have.

... Because they are going to totally kill this industry. It will become nothing more than Greyhound.

Ohh wait, it already is. Thank God and Allah I work for a trucking company instead of a busline...

 

[bgaviator]

The industry was killing itself before SX came along...people are just using SX as a scapegoat.

 

[climbhappy]

quote: because they are going to totally kill this industry.....

I have never , yes i have , heard as much BS as this suggests....

couple of points. skybus has a business model and with it comes a cost structure. they also have a nitch. it calls for serving cities off the radar.

what you fail to realize is that if a passenger wants to buy a ticket because of the price, they will.

southwest started this whole model... then came airtran, and jetblue...

somehow you think that the image of leo dicaprio in catch me if you can is the one you have been deprived of.

here's why your argument is full of crap...

EOS is a new 757 startup out of JFK ...they offer 48 first class seats that fold into beds. they tout their pax enjoy 21 cubic feet of space....

their tickets cost 4500 to 6000/bucs to go to london.

guess what? they are hiring and growing because they discovered their business model would work too.

wealthy like them.... penny pinchers like skybus, southwest, jetblue allegiant, airtran, and other ticket offered and the price that web searchers can find onsites like cheap tickets.com....

when you and others fail to see the role marketing plays in how you run an airline,when you compare skybus and what they do to EOS,and what they're doing, you'll put the crack pipe down and see that yes, we live in a market driven economy and the markets determine supply, demand and price.

gee wiz, seems like i heard that in econ 101, where were you pal?

 

[shooter]

quote: because they are going to totally kill this industry.....

I have never , yes i have , heard as much BS as this suggests....

couple of points. skybus has a business model and with it comes a cost structure. they also have a nitch. it calls for serving cities off the radar.

what you fail to realize is that if a passenger wants to buy a ticket because of the price, they will.

southwest started this whole model... then came airtran, and jetblue...

somehow you think that the image of leo dicaprio in catch me if you can is the one you have been deprived of.

here's why your argument is full of crap...

EOS is a new 757 startup out of JFK ...they offer 48 first class seats that fold into beds. they tout their pax enjoy 21 cubic feet of space....

their tickets cost 4500 to 6000/bucs to go to london.

guess what? they are hiring and growing because they discovered their business model would work too.

wealthy like them.... penny pinchers like skybus, southwest, jetblue allegiant, airtran, and other ticket offered and the price that web searchers can find onsites like cheap tickets.com....

when you and others fail to see the role marketing plays in how you run an airline,when you compare skybus and what they do to EOS,and what they're doing, you'll put the crack pipe down and see that yes, we live in a market driven economy and the markets determine supply, demand and price.

gee wiz, seems like i heard that in econ 101, where were you pal?

I think you fail to understand what is meant by "killing the industry".

Sure low cost carriers have a successful business model, because trailer trash want to fly too. But guess what, it is at the expense and pride of the workers in the industry. When the pilots want more pay (as they already do) cost need to go up, but by then other "class" airlines are in BK and the employees pay and work rules are down to Skybus wages. So YES they ARE lowering the bar for all aviation employees. Do you even remember when flying was an event? Maybe when you were a kid that gave you that bite to pursue it as an occupation? Those days are gone because of the likes of Skybus. But if you want to work McD's wages just to say you work for an airline thats just pathetic. There are airlines that are bringing class back to aviation, like SilverJet, but the golden age is dying and dividing into 2 classes of airlines. I would like to see all the legacy airlines keep their first class and/or business class. It's what makes aviation a glorious profession and NO TRAILER TRASH!

They are the only ones with the crack pipes. Oh wait, maybe the TSA people have them too.

 

[bgaviator]

So flying should only be made available to the elite? Also, many times there are doctors on board the SX flights....are they trailer trash? Many people like a great bargain, regardless of what class they belong to.

 

[climbhappy]

as far as i can tell bgaviator, your premise is pilots want higher pay therefore cost need to go up. ( i guess you mean the cost of a ticket) then you say,BUT BY THEN other class airlines are in BK. and the work rules and pay go down to skubus levels.

i am selling... listen, if skybus was a legacy carrier which they're not i'd listen.

the free market always lets new entrants come in offering whatever they want to offer. you didn't even address my point about EOS. did you see the ticket price of $6500.00 some will pay that for a PERCEIVED benefit. they boast 21 cubic feet of space per ciustomer.

the legacies , all mismanaged as they where with their 10 different types of aircraft as in US AIR case is proof MBAs are dumber than heck. that is why southwest has been profitable for twenty years.

backto the business model. My rebut this time says all airlines should not be in business for the same reason. that is why there is skybus. that is why there is EOS. the legacies are trying and succeeding now telling us why they're around.

IT is international flying. CAL and DElta both have the biggest chances to carve out why they're here and it is to take people all over the globe. Go to CALs website and see their 14% increase in RPMS due to Int'l traffic they will never say" our mission is to fly trailer trash from point to point domestically. that is the job of skybus,southwest, jetblue and whoever.

if airline fees are raised at peak periods as the leaders testified this week before congress, then ticket prices as you wanted will go up. it won't be for the pilots. it will be a disincentive to cram flights into rush hour and cause massive delays.

the only reason prices have edged up is becasue they all cut capacity through BK... if southwest raises prices ten bucks, then they all follow. that money still doesn't go to the pilots although southwest is the highest paid for the equipment at this time.

until the faa says to be able to fly a jet as an SIC that you have to have 1500 hours and a type, pay will never go up.

last weekend at the job fair, all i saw were regionals offering jobs with 300/100 for the mins. Do you still insist this is SKYbus fault?

 

[bgaviator]

Climbhappy, your post makes it sound like I'm criticizing SX....I'm completely defending them...I think you meant to take your anger out on Shooter maybe?

 

[shooter]

argue all you want, the bar is being lowered and it's the fault of the low cost models. When/if the legacy airlines die it will be because of the trailer trash airlines, not just skybus. And then who will fly to all the destinations? LCC's cherry pick their routes and legacy airlines serve them all. But now we're drifing off course. There needs to be an industry standard and skybus is lowering it. bg, if you want to defend lowering the bar for the industry, then I can only wish you struggle for the rest of your aviation days. Since the low costs allow for trailer trash to fly, the employees will end up only being able to live in the trailer parks.

 

[propsarebest]

Shooter, you and I are trash haulers. Isn't it nice that we don't have to put up with the trailer trash? We just haul the trailers.

 

[shooter]

Shooter, you and I are trash haulers. Isn't it nice that we don't have to put up with the trailer trash? We just haul the trailers.

everytime I think I miss pax operations...something always reminds me why I wanted out. The money is still good over on the box side and I hope it stays that way.

 

[ss9e]

Shooter, you and I are trash haulers. Isn't it nice that we don't have to put up with the trailer trash? We just haul the trailers.

word!

 

[climbhappy]

shooter

the funny thing you cannot tell me why.
there is far too much demand for air travel for the legacies to die. plus a merger would prevent it.

BK forced them to quit paying flight attendants 65,000 a year. bag toters 50,000 with perks. pilots who worked 40 hours with work rules 250,000 a year to fly a737

until you get basic cost accouting understood, you'll always driblble this notion that an obscure carrier brand new with 10 airplanes is causing the demise of an industry.

funny how southwest pilots are now the best paid for their type

 

[Midnight Flyer]

BK forced them to quit paying flight attendants 65,000 a year. bag toters 50,000 with perks. pilots who worked 40 hours with work rules 250,000 a year to fly a737

In the 90's, some of the most senior Delta ramp agents would sit in the bagroom with their legs propped up, reading a paper ("working"), while earning around 60,000 per year.
Some of them were earning more than an ASA E120 Captain at the time.

 

[bgaviator]

I used to work for a company that took over ramp handling for US Airways....the guys who were ramp workers directly for US Air I heard were earning $50,000/year to throw bags! You know how much I got paid to do that same job? $8/hour! No wonder these airlines went bankrupt. Like I said, airlines were killing themselves before SX was even a lightbulb in someone's head.

 

[climbhappy]

that sums it up. we agree. you can't run a profitable company when baggers are making 50k yr

i do feel that gate agents for the crap they put up with deserve better.

 

[shooter]

shooter

the funny thing you cannot tell me why.
there is far too much demand for air travel for the legacies to die. plus a merger would prevent it.

BK forced them to quit paying flight attendants 65,000 a year. bag toters 50,000 with perks. pilots who worked 40 hours with work rules 250,000 a year to fly a737

until you get basic cost accouting understood, you'll always driblble this notion that an obscure carrier brand new with 10 airplanes is causing the demise of an industry.

funny how southwest pilots are now the best paid for their type

you must be new to the industry.

 

[climbhappy]

if you call ten years new. you can look at this from many perspectives. i simply maintain that southwest started the original lowcost model. they're to blame for the demise of the legacies. not skybus.

also, explain how EOS, another startup that pays fos 65k a year to start is dragging the industry down to the bottom. most of their captains are delta guys who took the lump sum.

 

[shooter]

if you call ten years new. you can look at this from many perspectives. i simply maintain that southwest started the original lowcost model. they're to blame for the demise of the legacies. not skybus.

also, explain how EOS, another startup that pays fos 65k a year to start is dragging the industry down to the bottom. most of their captains are delta guys who took the lump sum.

true, Southwest is a LCC, I should be more careful how I word things. I meant discount airlines are killing the industry and the people who are willing to work for peanuts. Skybus is a discount airline, not an LCC.

LCC's just cherry pick their routes, which is another thread. This is about the Skyus and Ryanair's of the indusry.

 

[ASA DX]

i dispatch the trash, swap the trash, bring the trash back to the gate, defer the apu so the trash will be hot, and finally cancel the trash. And you know what the next day I have new trash to do the same thing too. Supply and demand fellas.."if you build it, they will come." I dont agree with it, but its happening. That trash pays my bills every month...barely. LOL!

 

[BoDEAN]

Skybus part of the CASS system, does anyone know?
I see you don't get paid til you are out of training, that is an eye sore.

 

[chickenwolf]

According to Skybus 85 percent of their passengers are people who would not ordinarily fly, if you couple that with most the cities they fly, then it should take little business from everyone else who is complaining.

All the RJ pilots out there who feel the need to bash this company (that I don't work for) are hypocrites.

From what I've heard from some elders most people looked down on Southwest for the first 5-10 years....

The Golden Ages are over and not coming back it's not SKybus's fault.

It's a startup, pay will go up eventually.

If they succeed the stock options will more than make up for the initial low pay.

This is capitalism USA! USA! USA!

A different model that might succeed in an industry fraught with BK is actually kind of nice, once you get over the fact that it's different than what you have been programmed to see.

It is a big risk..only time will tell...

 

[climbhappy]

chickenwolf, i agree totally.
i interview there next week. i 'm at a bottom feeder now, Pace. nobody goes where they go intentionally. it is where you end up. you're always aiming though for the prize. i can get over the pay thing. it can work as a motivator to get through training. i don't think their pay is that far behind jetblue, though i need to see some rates. cpt are making 95k flying 85 to 90 hours.

next door some rj wahoo has a thread called skybus is so cheap that ________fill in the blank!

it is funny that most pilots never took Econ 101, nor do they understand business, free markets and nitch marketing.

oh well, they can sure push those hi tech buttons on the panel though... that said, if i threw out the need to pay the bills, i would fly a jetstream by hand if i was choosing how to go through my aviation career.
it's more fun.

 

[bgaviator]

Skybus part of the CASS system, does anyone know?
I see you don't get paid til you are out of training, that is an eye sore.

Yes, they just got CASS approved last week.