SIC is not immune...

[jpm]

A post on another thread said something to the effect that "... there are two (butts) on the line: the PIC and Dispatcher." Ummmmm... not exactly. There are THREE butts on the line...

I have to warn the less-experienced SIC's that even though the (121) regs reference only the PIC and Dispatcher as being jointly responsible, the case law strongly suggests that the FAA will hold BOTH the PIC and SIC accountable in the event something goes wrong.

Unfortunately, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It goes even further than the three butts. And not just in commercial operations.

Contrary to a widely-held belief, the authority, duty, and ultimate responsibility of the PIC does =not= mean that no one else can be held responsible for not doing his or her job.

 

[SkywayFO]

I have always said they will hang both SIC and PIC. I also have a pesonal rule when I fly light aircraft with friend, I will always be in one of the front seats. I would look like a real jacka$$ if something happend and I was in the back and the only CFI in the plane. If you are a CFI and riding along in the right seat not even giving instruction they will hold you liable. So protect yourself and think like an insrtuctor anyway, and cover your six.

 

[Timebuilder]

The way they look at it is this: if someone is in the airplane or the chain of responsibility for the flight, and that person knew or should have known that a more positive outcome could have been achieved by their more active and effective participation in the flight, then the FAA will ALWAYS seek to name those parties as being at least partially culpable.

You can bank on it.

 

[avbug]

If you are a CFI and riding along in the right seat not even giving instruction they will hold you liable.

This is a popular myth. I believe it feeds the ego of the up and rising flight instructor, but it has no basis in reality.

No, the FAA does not seek out the person with the highest certification, or the most experience with the intent to blame him or her, or violate him or her. Myth; all myth.

New flight instructors like to believe that they have achieved the pinnacle of pilot certification. They like to believe that they are always pilot in command when in the aircraft, that their position is somehow loftier...after all, they're the people who not only fly, but teach others to fly. Echoes of old movie lines, the best of the best of...what's left?

A flight instructor certificate isn't a pilot certificate. It's a teaching certificate. Do you suppose that in the event of a mishap that occurs when you are riding along, the FAA will attack you on the basis that you failed to teach hard enough?

Perhaps because you failed to perform a mutiny and sieze control of the aircraft, and exert your superior knowledge and ability, when you weren't a pilot or crewmember on that flight? Save the day by denouncing the terrible flight planning or judgement on the part of the 172 Captain with whom you're riding, and take over in time to avert certain disaster? Do you think that the Administrator, or representatives thereof actually think or act that way? Are you aware that interceding or arresting control from the Pilot in Command may be construed as air piracy?

Ego likes to think that one is above all the others, and therefore recognized as such by authority. But ego is wrong.

Who is pilot in command?

Can a SIC be held liable? Absolutely, when the SIC is really acting as SIC, and shares liability for the safe outcome of the flight. Don't confuse that with riding along. It's not at all the same thing.

 

[Timebuilder]

Do you think that the Administrator, or representatives thereof actually think or act that way? Are you aware that interceding or arresting control from the Pilot in Command may be construed as air piracy?

I am not advocating a takeover of the aircraft, but I do know that the administrator and the process they use are based upon administrative law, and the ways of lawyers. If they can find someone in any way culpable, they will do so. It is the nature of the tort process.

 

[C150Commuter]

As the CFI in the backseat myth....You won't get in FAA trouble but if people are injured they will try to get you in a civil matter.

 

[midlifeflyer]

As the CFI in the backseat myth....You won't get in FAA trouble but if people are injured they will try to get you in a civil matter.

Most likely unsuccessfully.

 

[SkywayFO]

Trust me it is not an ego thing. I haven't been a flight instructor on a regular basis for a long time know but they will come after me, trust me. Either the Feds or the lawyers/ insurance company with dance all over the chance to hang as many as they can.

 

[avbug]

This is based on personal past experience following an accident or incident, or upon extensive knowledge of administrative case law?

Note that this isn't criminal law. It's administrative law, and it's another ball game, completely.