SIC Inst Currency

[solafide]

I am chief pilot and check airman for an operator under 135, and I thought I knew the regs pretty well. Well...yesterday I had my six month check with our POI and in the oral he asked me what is required for an SIC to be instrument current. I said, "a 135.293 written/oral and competency check within the last 12 calendar months in the aircraft to be flown." He wasn't happy with that. He wanted to hear 61.57(c) regarding 6 approaches, holding, intercepting and tracking courses. I told him I thought that was only a requirement to act as PIC under IFR, but he responded by telling me that is a requirement for any pilot (and I quote) "to keep his instrument rating current."

Anyone care to comment? Am I off base or is my POI a lunatic?

 

[flyer172r]

POI's a lunatic. 61.57 specifically says pilot in command, that's it.

 

[rickair7777]

I'm not a 135 guy, but in 91 it only applies to the PIC per 61.

 

[Rythm3]

Actually, regarding instrument currency under 135, isn't a 135.297 also required? Since the 293 is only an aircraft specific check, something has to be done regarding the SIC's instrument currency.

I've been away from 135 for a while, but it seems the SIC would need either the 297 check or have done the 6 approaches, holding, within 6 months (or completed an instrument proficency check.)

 

[MauleSkinner]

Am I off base or is my POI a lunatic?

Personally, I'd pick the latter...

61.57 refers to "acting" as PIC, not "logging" PIC (remember that whole discussion?), so does not apply to an SIC.

The only "currency" requirements for an SIC are the annual training required by 61.55 (not applicable to 135 ops), or a 135.293 check.

135.297, as you know, is the 135 version of an IPC, and is not required for an SIC.

Unless your POI is finding something else in there, he's definitely off base.

Fly safe!

David

 

[solafide]

All your comments are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[some_dude]

Sorry, your POI is absolutely correct.

135.245(a) ("Second in Command Qualifications") is quite clear: "For flight under IFR, that person must meet the recent instrument experience requirements of part 61 of this chapter."

Under 91, however, I do not believe there is such a requirement (I could be wrong).

 

[mike1mc]

some_dude is absolutely correct. You can't even give an SIC a 297 check unless he is PIC-qualified. The 135 regs lay it out plain and simple. We always do a few approaches on the 293 checks and the Check Airmen can sign off the IPC if needed.

 

[pilotyip]

Now if Mr SIC goes IFR flying in his C-172, he should have the documentation to support currency required by Part 61.

 

[solafide]

In my original post I was aware that 297 only applied to a PIC. The question was whether an SIC needed the instrument experience required in 61. But it's hard to argue with 135.245, and that's what I was looking for when I posted. Thanks, some_dude!