seriously looking for flight school

[j-bird]

After looking at some of everybodys recommendations it looks to me like Pan Am and ATP have alot to offer. If anyone has any positive or negative suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bobbysamd]

Schools, pro and con

I'd suggest you run a thorough search on Regional Airline Academy. I would just say that it's not what it's cracked up to be.

Despite the opinions of at least two forum members, a four-year degree is essential to ensure a level playing field for hiring. Thus, you are wise to incorporate it in your plans.

I instructed at MAPD. I like the program because it works. Those who follow the program get interviews at Mesa Airlines at 300 hours. A San Juan College Associates in Aviation Technology is part of the program in Farmington, and you might be able to transfer prior credits and only require its aviation courses to graduate. However, your Associate's and a San Juan College Associate's don't add up to a Bachelor's. You would still need at least 30 hours at a four-year school for your Bachelor's.

I would not recommend getting your Private beforehand if you choose MAPD. MAPD's training is based on Mesa Airlines line procedures and the thought processes you acquired beforehand might impede being trained the Mesa way. Moreover, according to the MAPD website, you still must complete MAPD's Private training, so it wouldn't be worth it to earn a Private beforehand. In addition, I found that students who are trained from zero time in one program do better than those who earned their Privates elsewhere and must be indoctrinated their new school's way.

Before you commit to Pan Am, drive down U.S. 1 and visit FlightSafety Academy in Vero. I instructed there as well. FSI is expensive, but you get what you pay for in terms of good training and name recognition. The aircraft are extremely well maintained and the facilities are first class. Cost is comparable to Pan Am.

Finally, while we're talking about Florida schools, run a board search on Comair (DCA). As with MAPD, the Comair program can lead to an airline interview, but suffice it to say that it is not everyone's cup of tea.

Hope that helps some more. Good luck with the training provider you choose.

 

[350DRIVER]

bobbysamd,

You make some very good points as always but just wanted to ask you one question. Are you stating that getting the PVT is not a good idea due only to the fact that the MAPD students must repeat the course out in Farmington regardless of whether or not they go into the program with their license?.

I was under the impression atleast from friends' and my former students that went there said they were a leg up on the entire class since they already came into the program with the Private even though they still had to fly the Private training flights in accordance with the MAPD setup minus the actual checkride at the end.

I have also heard that Mr. Castle and others suggested this practice and endorsed it as well since a zero time student + the A-36 didn't always go hand in hand. Can it be done successfuly without having the private?. Surely, I think quite a few go into this program with no flight time and they are successful but most of all whom I know that went here did go into the program with their Private tickets and they said it helped them quite a bit and the entire first semester was basically very easy and it allowed them the opportunity to get to know the A-36 inside and out without having to worry about missing deadlines and getting write ups.

From my personal research, information, etc, it seemed that those who went in to their first semester there with the Private did extremely well and this is what I have always suggested to my former students and most have thanked me. Is it cost effective?. Probably not. Is it "wise"?. I guess that is a judgement call on part of the student and his/her CFI.

Just wanted to get your thoughts?.

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I do understand the MAPD standardization procedures that take effect day 1 when the student arrives since they start training you the airline (Mesa) way as well from the get go.

 

[bobbysamd]

Pre-MAPD Private

I was under the impression atleast from friends' and my former students that went there said they were a leg up on the entire class since they already came into the program with the Private even though they still had to fly the Private training flights in accordance with the MAPD setup minus the actual checkride at the end.

I have also heard that Mr. Castle and others suggested this practice and endorsed it as well since a zero time student + the A-36 didn't always go hand in hand. Can it be done successfuly without having the private?. Surely, I think quite a few go into this program with no flight time and they are successful but most of all whom I know that went here did go into the program with their Private tickets and they said it helped them quite a bit and the entire first semester was basically very easy and it allowed them the opportunity to get to know the A-36 inside and out without having to worry about missing deadlines and getting write ups.

The FAQ stated that all students must finish the program in its entirety; therefore, it doesn't seem worth it to take the Private twice. I'm surprised that Rich Castle would say something contrary to official literature - but that's flight school advertising for ya.

The main reason would be the Laws of Primacy and Interference. Learning something one way on first impression can confuse you just enough to interfere with future learning or retraining that may be based differently. At ERAU especially I found that new students who received training elsewhere did not fly to standards and were weak in comparison to Riddlers who learned from zero time and had no training elsewhere - and this not ERAU chauvinism talking. The point would be to gain the primacy of learning the MAPD way because all future training is based on and builds upon this initial training. MAPD is a very intense and structured program compared to many other schools. If the foundation is weak and/or different in the first place, trying to build upon it or rebuild it can be problematical compared to building it right the first time.

Finally, when I was at MAPD in 1993, nearly all our students started in the Bonanzas from zero time. They earned their Privates. They did fine. As far as they were concerned, the only thing they knew about flying was the Bonanza. They had no other reference, so they didn't know that a fast Bonanza was a tough airplane in comparison to the more usual Cessna or Piper trainers. Moreover, while I was there, there were Private certificate-holders who tried to challenge the MAPD Private course. They all lost - though the losses could have been artificial to force them to take the MAPD Private course so the school could make more money off them.

To summarize, a new flight student can learn to fly an A36 without problems. It's done at the foreign pilot schools in Arizona and California. These students do just as well - or as poorly - as those who learn to fly in Cessna and Piper.

 

[350DRIVER]

To summarize, a new flight student can learn to fly an A36 without problems. It's done at the foreign pilot schools in Arizona and California. These students do just as well - or as poorly - as those who learn to fly in Cessna and Piper.

I agree with you completely, thanks for your perspective with regards to this.

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[JD2003]

Don't go to TAB

 

[UnAnswerd]

Interviews with an airline at 300 hours, and yet you apparently need 1200 to work for a 135 operation??? Can anyone explain???

 

[BoilerUP]

Interviews with an airline at 300 hours, and yet you apparently need 1200 to work for a 135 operation??? Can anyone explain???

135 PIC vs. 121 SIC?

Huge difference. IMO

 

[350DRIVER]

Interviews with an airline at 300 hours, and yet you apparently need 1200 to work for a 135 operation??? Can anyone explain???

You are trained the airline way from day 1 and flight 1. It is not the quantity that counts here, it is the quality, experience, set up, and standardization of the program that makes these 300 hour pilots do so well when they are off of IOE and on the line. The 1200 hours is required per regulation to be able to be a part 135 captain, not required to be able "to work for a 135 operation". You will have a hard time meeting insurance reqt's at low flight times but it has been done, depends on many variables and some operators can "massage" the insurance reqts.

good luck

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[User546]

Interviews with an airline at 300 hours, and yet you apparently need 1200 to work for a 135 operation??? Can anyone explain???

Regardless of what you hear, you DONT get an interview with an airline at 300 hours. That is the BARE MINIMUM hours that your going to get to go all the way thru the training.

Once you have finished all your training, you then must work as an instructor at the school until you get between 1000 (for Airnet) and between 1200-1500 hours to get an interview at a regional airline. Period, no exception. And I know of an instructor that works there that only logged 250 hours last year, so dont think it's going to be an overnight occurence either!