Seeking Advice

[Kugelblitz]

This is my first time on the corporate portal. I am seriously considering attempting to make a significant job change and move from the airline sector to the private/corporate sector. I have no experience in the corporate arena, so advice from those involved is greatly appreciated.

A little about me and my situation; I am a furloughed TWA/AA pilot and am currently with CAL, I start my third year at CAL in Jan. I have about 10K hours and 3 type ratings-none of which are corporate- save for the SIC type in a Challenger courtesy of 3 years at Comair. Oh, and I am 41 years old.

I know that many if not most corporate flight departments want a type in their specific aircraft and that would be a deal killer right off the start, additionally, I am seeking employment in the St. Louis area where we have many corporate headquarters and flight departments.

I am fed up with CAL, working for them really feels a lot like working for Trans States Airlines, a regional carrier I worked for in the mid-90's and without a doubt the worst airline to work for in the industry, Mesa not withstanding.

I know that my major airline career may not be a plus but a minus, but nonetheless, I would like to throw my hat in the corporate ring. I will not return to the airline industry if given the opportunity to fly for a high quality corporate flight department.

Advice, experiences and ideas please.

Thanks

 

[lazyace75]

This is my first time on the corporate portal. I am seriously considering attempting to make a significant job change and move from the airline sector to the private/corporate sector. I have no experience in the corporate arena, so advice from those involved is greatly appreciated.

A little about me and my situation; I am a furloughed TWA/AA pilot and am currently with CAL, I start my third year at CAL in Jan. I have about 10K hours and 3 type ratings-none of which are corporate- save for the SIC type in a Challenger courtesy of 3 years at Comair. Oh, and I am 41 years old.

I know that many if not most corporate flight departments want a type in their specific aircraft and that would be a deal killer right off the start, additionally, I am seeking employment in the St. Louis area where we have many corporate headquarters and flight departments.

I am fed up with CAL, working for them really feels a lot like working for Trans States Airlines, a regional carrier I worked for in the mid-90's and without a doubt the worst airline to work for in the industry, Mesa not withstanding.

I know that my major airline career may not be a plus but a minus, but nonetheless, I would like to throw my hat in the corporate ring. I will not return to the airline industry if given the opportunity to fly for a high quality corporate flight department.

Advice, experiences and ideas please.

Thanks

Like everyone says all along....it's all about networking and knocking on some doors.

I'm from the STL area as well and it's a hard nut to crack to get on the "inside". It took me 4-5 yrs. and I know others trying to do the same thing right now.

I wouldn't worry too much about the non-corporate type rating issue. It's not too much for a Fortune 500 company here in STL to send you to an initial class, although sometimes it gives you a lead. Most corporate flight departments are concerned about your ability to converse/relate with the pax and make them comfortable. If you show that you are personable and easy to work with, that will go a long way regardless of your airline past.

 

[BeeFCaKe]

Curious why you wouldn't just hold out until you go back to AA and be based at home???

I suspect they will have everyone back in a year or 2, and it has been my experience that a lot of corporations won't talk to you because they see you are furloughed and are scared you will go back to the airline when your number is up.

 

[Raskal]

I wouldn't worry about the whole attitude of "corp vs airline" thing, in my experience it's overblown, maybe 10-15 years ago but things are different now and you have pilots jumping to both sides.

The one concern that is valid is the one beefcake mentioned, corp depts will be concerned about the AA seniority number and the prospect of giving you a type. Are you willing to resign it? It may come up.

With your time and experience you should be qualified to apply for just about anything, and as far as the corps that wont put you through initial, well, you probably don't want to go to a company that is demonstrating cheapskate behavior off the bat anyway. Unfortunately there are a number of those in the 91 world-be careful.

Good luck.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Thanks for the posts, as far as AA in STL I have to think that base is on borrowed time. There are intrigues afoot that would render our bidding 'rights' (as originally given us by APA) null and void. If that were to happen, I would not make Cap. until I am near retirement. Besides, a good chunk of the AA pilots will always look down their nose at us, not that I care, but if I could avoid dealing with more BS along those lines then that is the road I would take.

Truly, I am sick of airline people and the lifestyle.

 

[ultrarunner]

Kuge, you're actually in a pretty good position to evaluate your options....

1. You're employed in a reasonable paying position

2. You have recall rights to another airline job with good pay and bennies...

3. You're not pressed for time to find a job.

Here is an opinion coming from someone who did corp/charter to charter to airline then back to corp....

Charter is charter and is just plain SUCKS. I don't care who you're doing it for, the margins are thin and you will be worked to the bone. IMHO opinion all charter gigs = a $hitty QOL.

Corp gigs can go either way. There are excellent gigs and $hitty gigs. Not much middle ground in this environment. And in either case, you're still subject to a downturn or downsize.

The airline gig is more straight forward. First, you have a schedule...it may be $hitty, but you know 6 weeks out what is going on. Pay at the current gig might suck right now, but will likely get better, along with the work rules.

You're 3 yrs at CAL, so I'm assuming you're an FO line-holder. But I suspect you commute to EWR or some other god for saken place, and any commute can make a good gig lousy.

All in all, like others have said, good corp gigs are, in most cases, about networking. Only the looser outfits care about a type rating in what they operate. The good outfits hire the right person, period.

Your current employment and recall rights will likely come up during the interview...however, if you get so far as sitting in front of the Corporate CP to answer those questions, you're sitting in front of someone who wants to hire you, or they would not have wasted their time or yours.

Your progression at the airlines is obviously easily determined. Both at CAL and AA. With age-65 essentially a done-deal, it's worth a careful analysis.

But don't sell yourself too short. Are you currently accruing longevity at AA? If so, even with age-65, you could be in a pretty good place, earnings wise when you get recalled. And AA recalls are increasing to 50 a month or so. Map it out and see where you will likely be when you get back on property.

AA has an A fund and a B fund. Plus the traditional 401k. You won't have those kinds of options at the corp charter gig. And when you hit 50 and can use the catch-up function of the 401k, you can divert a significant amount of pre-tax money. IMO, I think you can save more at the airline gig, then the corp...all depends. BUT, none of that matters if you have a really crappy QOL, with no hope of improvement.

Those are my thoughts....

 

[PlaneJohn]

Corporate can be a bad gig or a good one depending on the company you select. I currently work for a small corporate flight department that consists of 3 pilots and 1 plane. Job securitity is good (they have maintained a flight department for 30yrs), but this may not allways be the case with some small departments or large one for that matter. As I have some friends who have worked for the same company better then 15-20 years an may now be out of work if their company is sold. On average I work about 7-10 days a month with very few overnights, and pay is above the average for the type of equipment I am in.

There really is no set standard for corporate aviation as the jobs are as varied as companys they serve. That being the case some operations may have set guidelines for their operations, while others are run like a cowboy operation. Other things to consider are the crews you work with. Seems to me a lot of flight departments look for a guy who is going to be a good "fit" and someone you can live with on the road or for the next several years. Whereas, in the airlines if your stuck with an a$$hole for a tour, at least you know you may never have to fly with him again. Not the case with corporate. Customer service is also an essential, some pax are high mx while others are very easy. Plan on loading bags, doing your own flight planning, getting rental cars and hotels for yourself and pax, provisioning your plane and keeping it clean, and trying to find services at some of the small off the beaten path places we tend to frequent.

You may also want to consider the fractionals like Netjets. I have a few friends that work there an are quite happy. There pay has come along way and they are now starting to surpass that of corporate. You have a schedule and you can just about live anywhere you want.

Unless you absolutely hate where you are at (CAL, I'm assuming thats Continental) I would stay put, as you may like corporate even less. Whatever you choose, good luck. I hope I was able to give you a little insight from my experience from this side.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Corporate can be a bad gig or a good one depending on the company you select. I currently work for a small corporate flight department that consists of 3 pilots and 1 plane. Job securitity is good (they have maintained a flight department for 30yrs), but this may not allways be the case with some small departments or large one for that matter. As I have some friends who have worked for the same company better then 15-20 years an may now be out of work if their company is sold. On average I work about 7-10 days a month with very few overnights, and pay is above the average for the type of equipment I am in.

There really is no set standard for corporate aviation as the jobs are as varied as companys they serve. That being the case some operations may have set guidelines for their operations, while others are run like a cowboy operation. Other things to consider are the crews you work with. Seems to me a lot of flight departments look for a guy who is going to be a good "fit" and someone you can live with on the road or for the next several years. Whereas, in the airlines if your stuck with an a$$hole for a tour, at least you know you may never have to fly with him again. Not the case with corporate. Customer service is also an essential, some pax are high mx while others are very easy. Plan on loading bags, doing your own flight planning, getting rental cars and hotels for yourself and pax, provisioning your plane and keeping it clean, and trying to find services at some of the small off the beaten path places we tend to frequent.

You may also want to consider the fractionals like Netjets. I have a few friends that work there an are quite happy. There pay has come along way and they are now starting to surpass that of corporate. You have a schedule and you can just about live anywhere you want.

Unless you absolutely hate where you are at (CAL, I'm assuming thats Continental) I would stay put, as you may like corporate even less. Whatever you choose, good luck. I hope I was able to give you a little insight from my experience from this side.

Wow, thank you so much for the excellent gouge. I hope that I don't come across as not appreciating my position, because I do, but a nice corp job does sound nice. I had no idea that one could gauge the quality of the operation based on their type rating requirements, very good to know.

I suspected that provisioning the plane and making travel arrangements are part of the job, just as long as I don't have to unclog the lav.... I finally threw those gloves out.

As for AA, I am not accrueing seniority but am locked at 7th year pay... which still exceeds my current pay by far, I certainly haven't written them off.

 

[rumrnr78]

A fractional will help wash off the airline funk and is a great way to make contacts. You will work your arse off but it is a great experience and will pay dividends at your corporate job!
The best job in aviation is a great corporate gig! Seriously.
I wish you the best in your search.

rum

 

[willNOTfly4free]

A fractional will help wash off the airline funk and is a great way to make contacts. You will work your arse off but it is a great experience and will pay dividends at your corporate job!

Not to mention you'll gain a biz jet type rating as soon as you're hired. This will advance you leaps and bounds as you search for a cushy pt 91 job.

The best job in aviation is a great corporate gig! Seriously.

I'll second that.