Say Again?

[G21Agoose]

We operate out of Europe and while it is usually a very safe operating environment the biggest safety issue we find is language confusion.
Either the controllers don't speak English well, or other pilots are speaking in their native tongues and it leads to confusion and thus danger. This is especially true in France where a lot of pilots speak in French and use odd terminology.

As many of you here fly internationally, do you suffer the same issues (not just in Europe)? I feel this is a major safety issue that is not given enough attention. Comments?

 

[xdrvr]

Know what you mean, hate flying into Mexico. Although English is supposed to be the standard, it sounds more like Spanglish a lot. Not just the dialect that can be hard to deal with, but also some of the practices...

 

[AA717driver]

China's the same as France. Transitioning from Mandarin to English.TC

 

[h25b]

China's the same as France. Transitioning from Mandarin to English.TC

Curr Position: Bent over, wiping down the struts...

Do you have to do this in China or is this only required at home base ??? You must work for one of those dirt bag operations...

 

[G21Agoose]

China's the same as France. Transitioning from Mandarin to English.TC

Do you consider it a danger? (My Mandarin is not what it used to be). Ever had problems?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I find China pretty good..especially the Shanghai/Beijing/Honk Kong areas.

North Russia...especially at night. Forget it, cant even begin to understand. I figure if they dont yell again, all is cool. I swear they sound like they are talking into a tin can.

Central Africa - flown for 3+ hours w/o talking to a soul. Nobody home..

I dont find the French too hard, and actually fairly friendly.

But I still have the hardest time with a lot of the damm Brits. That whiny pansy a$$ Queens English is just painful.

 

[mobie]

Say Again

It is a real problem, I co-chaired the SAE International Phraseology Group several years ago and we only made "some" progress. We in the USA tend to be more lax in some cases for someone with English as a second tounge to even operate here.

Mobie

 

[G21Agoose]

I dont find the French too hard, and actually fairly friendly.

But I still have the hardest time with a lot of the damm Brits. That whiny pansy a$$ Queens English is just painful.

I speak French- it's still hard to understand the locals a lot of the time. Its also French ATC speaking in English.
As far as the damn Brits......we are, IMHO, the clearest on the radio.
Tally ho!

 

[AA717driver]

Goose--The only time I've had trouble in China was in far western China. They gave us a bogus HF freq. to contact the Russian controller as we were heading north, south of Novokuznetsk (sp?). It took us a while to find a freq that worked. We were asked by the controller why we took so long, we explained and he informed us that Russian Air Defence commander was "concerned, very concerned".

Like G200 said, eastern China is pretty good but the transitioning back and forth is tough.

G200--North Russia: That's the vodka talking! The tin can thing gets a little old. I haven't done Africa. Don't wish to, either. I do agree with the British atc assment, though. (I suppose if we Colonials hadn't butchered the Queen's English so badly we'd be having no problems. Cheers!)

h25b--I'm just one strut-wipin son-of-a-b!t@h! TC

 

[h25b]

h25b--I'm just one strut-wipin son-of-a-b!t@h! TC

Me too. However, I believe the term G200 used was "chump" ...

 

[Diesel]

i return my conversation in swedish.

That will usually freak them out a little.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Goose--The only time I've had trouble in China was in far western China. They gave us a bogus HF freq. to contact the Russian controller as we were heading north, south of Novokuznetsk (sp?). It took us a while to find a freq that worked. We were asked by the controller why we took so long, we explained and he informed us that Russian Air Defence commander was "concerned, very concerned".

Like G200 said, eastern China is pretty good but the transitioning back and forth is tough.

G200--North Russia: That's the vodka talking! The tin can thing gets a little old. I haven't done Africa. Don't wish to, either. I do agree with the British atc assment, though. (I suppose if we Colonials hadn't butchered the Queen's English so badly we'd be having no problems. Cheers!)

h25b--I'm just one strut-wipin son-of-a-b!t@h! TC

ahh....Novisibirsk?

The "gateway to Siberia", a garden spot.

yes, Id be worried too if the Russian Air Commander is "very concerned".


and that "Cheers mate" thing....uggghh...just makes me want to smack the crap out of a limey.


H25 = love the avatar man, thats great. You caught Hawker F/O in action!

 

[pilot error]

ho chi minh control is hit or miss if you can understand them or not. some are very good, some not so much.

africa, by and large sucks. not because you can't understand them, but because they don't anwser.

amazonian is indecipherable to me. read back what you want to hear. if they yell, you got it wrong. if it's quiet, you got it right.

the french certainly have their moments. when you do understand them, you have to scramble to figure out where the fix that they just sent you to is. usually it's best to start looking about 300nm off your route, and look outwards from there.

it's also about time for northern russia to modernize their hf radios and to get some selcal.

now that i have commented, to anwser the original question, i think it is a safety issue, particularly when pilots and atc are using their native tongues. doesn't do much to help the non-native language speakers situational awareness.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It is a real problem, I co-chaired the SAE International Phraseology Group several years ago and we only made "some" progress. We in the USA tend to be more lax in some cases for someone with English as a second tounge to even operate here.

Mobie

Mobie,

Unfortunately, there are many clown, er I mean cool pilots in the US that are offended when you suggest to them to use standard phraseology. This is a kin to asking a Detroit gangsta rapper to use proper white boy english.

If they ever obtain a job flying overseas they are going to have to learn very quickly or suffer the consequences.... Why anyone would want to put themselves at such a disadvantage......

Rezfully Yours....

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Mobie,

Unfortunately, there are many clown, er I mean cool pilots in the US that are offended when you suggest to them to use standard phraseology. This is a kin to asking a Detroit gangsta rapper to use proper white boy english.

If they ever obtain a job flying oversears they are going to have to learn very quickly or suffer the consequences....

Rezfully Yours....

agreed.

I have heard "see ya" and "checkin in witcha" overseas and all it does is confuse the heck out of ATC. The US airlines seem to be the worst offenders. (love that "deltas xxx" low tone mumble)



now, easy on the Detroit gangsta rappers buddy.

 

[XTW]

It took us a while to find a freq that worked. We were asked by the controller why we took so long, we explained and he informed us that Russian Air Defence commander was "concerned, very concerned".
TC

You "flat-landers" need to stay between the the Ohio and Mississippi rivers and you'll be just fine!:laugh:


X

 

[AA717driver]

"Flat-landers"? You're from Rhode-frickin'-Island. You put lobstah in yah chowdah. The only people that can understand you are the Boston controllers...

G200--Novosibirsk is west of Novokuznetsk. I'd never heard of it till my first "crossing" from Beijing to Genoa. They are just west of Irkutsk and Lake Baikal. Geez, I need a drink--this Russian geography is making me thirsty.

Now, where did I leave that six-pack of Goose shooters? TC

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G200--Novosibirsk is west of Novokuznetsk. I'd never heard of it till my first "crossing" from Beijing to Genoa. They are just west of Irkutsk and Lake Baikal. Geez, I need a drink--this Russian geography is making me thirsty.

OK gotcha. Novokuznetsk...I gotta break out the world atlas for that one.

damn Ruskies...Only thing good there is Russian Standard. (and the chiks hanging out at the Kempinski)

Now I need a drink too!

 

[G21Agoose]

OK gotcha. Novokuznetsk...
dang Ruskies... (and the chiks hanging out at the Kempinski)

TC

YOU SEE? I can't understand a word you guys are saying..........
Is it unsafe?

 

[XTW]

dang Ruskies...Only thing good there is Russian Standard.

What about Stolichnaya?


X