Saw this at OAK on Sunday...

[LXJ31]

How much does a Citation VII weigh? I'm guessing over 17,000 lbs, right? There is a couple fellows out there that need to read the whole airport diagram during the brief. To be fair, some Lear 35 charter operators do too...among others.

Just kind of chaps you a little when your a trying to explain to your pax why you landed on 11 and then taxied for 3 hours to Kaiser when Billy Bob and Mary Sue are landing on the 9 parallels and hammering the TRs...

 

[Timebuilder]

The "nine parallels" are rated for 75,000 lbs for a single wheel, and 200,000 lbs for a double wheel, like the Lear 35.

Max landing weight for the 35 is 15,300 lbs. with our serial numbers and updates. This is a common configuration.

Runway 15/33 is rated for only 12,500 lbs, but is only 3366 feet long; too short for us.

I can't imagine the the Citation is much heavier for MLW.

Are you referring to taxiway weight capacity? I don't know why an aircraft would be cleared to operate on a taxiway if it is too heavy, but it can and does happen.

I have heard a story of a military cargo plane that actually sank into a taxiway, and was taken apart, piece by piece for the journey home, and the pilots received a thorough scr#wing.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

KOAK

NOISE ABATEMENT: 24 HR RESTRICTION TURBO-PROP ACFT OVER 17,000 LBS, ALL JET ACFT AND 4-ENGINE PISTON ACFT PROHIBITED FM TKOF RYS 27L, 27R OR LNDGS RYS 09L, 09R.

 

[Timebuilder]

Ah. I didn't have that info available here.

So, the jets are prohibited from takeoff on the 27 end, and landing on the 9 end.

So, that being the case, why would a clearance to land be given to the jets in question?

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Up to you to comply.

 

[Timebuilder]

I see.

ATC has no part in this; they will vector jets to land all day and it's up to the aircraft to say "no, we don't want to land on that runway".

Hmmm. Doesn't sound right to me.

 

[NJA Capt]

Max landing weight for the 35 is 15,300 lbs. with our serial numbers and updates.

I can't imagine the the Citation is much heavier for MLW.

I know it's a moot point for this thread now, but here is the info anyway.

Citation VII
Max ramp........23,200
Max land.........20,000

 

[Timebuilder]

Thanks for the numbers. 5k is within my "guess" range for the Citation.

So, is it considered "normal" at OAK for controllers to vector jets to land on runways where they know that jets are not permitted to land?

Just a thought, ya know?

 

[fraitman]

At OAK, jets are not supposed to depart westerly off of 27R or 27L or land on 9R/L. That is any time of day, not just during the special noise abatement rules from 10pm to 6am. Like was mentioned, ATC will let you, but you are not supposed to. ATC is responsible for traffic separation, noise issues are low on their list. It is the Port of Oakland that will be calling you for failure to follow the noise rules. Jets can depart off of 9R anytime. Ameriflight prefers to depart their Lear 35's off of 9R late at night if winds allow, it saves quite a bit of time rather then going to the south field. Although traffic is usually arriving from the west, there is very little traffic late night and ATC can normally handle it. When SFO lands Southeast due to non-prevailing wind conditions, the whole SF Bay Area (SFO,OAK, SJC) goes to the Southeast Traffic plan, which changes the departure and arrival paths and screws everything up. During normal West-plan ops, The small/medium jets parking at the north field can land on 27R and 27L, and they usually do. AMF does have Lears land on 29, not because of noise or runway length, but when they are carrying UPS. The UPS ramp is on the south field.

 

[LXJ31]

I don't know the different weights on Lear 35 models, I had just read numbers off the web that were saying 18,300 lbs. We had actually planned on landing 9R until we'd read the chart and figured the long taxi was better than risking any trouble even though we were listening to all sorts of characters being given 11, then requesting and getting the North side. Trouble not only from the local authorities or Feds, but there is always the chance a fleet supervisor or standards captain is on the ramp with a front row seat to your transgression. The point of my post was that it puts us in the awkward position of explaining to our passengers why we flew halfway to Oakland and drove the rest when you know they are thinking, "THEY don't seem to have a problem with landing over here...whats wrong with you two???" Its like the same thing you get at Aspen when the weather, and I don't want this to degenerate into an argument over the legality of low weather departures, climb gradients etc., gets bad and you are explaining why you can't leave yet to the pax, only to have your words drowned out mid-sentence by another Lear or Beechjet or something at takeoff thrust.