Safety pilot logging

[Jedi_Cheese]

I know how to count the time logged as safety pilot (EG: PIC vs dual vs SIC vs TT vs Simulated Instrament), but I am wondering what sorts of extra information needs to be written down on both sides.

If I am under the hood, what information do I need (other pilot's name, signature, liscense numbers, DNA samples, ect)? If I am the safety pilot, what sorts of information do I need? Should I write down what instrament approaches we did as the safety pilot?

Right now, I just add the other pilots name (and clarify that they are a safety pilot) and if I am under the hood, I put down the approaches done. I want to get this right before I get far enough that I can't recreate this anymore.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Like =all= logging questions, this one also has it's answers in the "Universal Logging Rule", FAR 61.51

61.51(g) tells us that

For the purposes of logging instrument time to meet the recent instrument experience requirements of § 61.57(c) of this part, the following information must be recorded in the person's logbook -
(I) The location and type of each instrument approach accomplished; and
(ii) The name of the safety pilot, if required.

So sounds like what you're doing now is just fine.

Unless the safety pilot wants to count the time as PIC or SIC as appropriate, she doesn't need to write anything in her logbook.

 

[flytheblue]

Just curious as to what others might do....

Say that you have 2 pilots doing instrument approaches and being safety pilot for each other, and both are going to log the flight as PIC... would you log the whole flight, or take off time for being on the ground (since you can't really be SP on the ground anyway) or flying thru clouds?

 

[Alchemy]

How can you have a safety pilot when you're flying through the clouds? The whole point of the safety pilot is to look for traffic while the flying pilot is flying under simulated instrument conditions in VMC.

The way I see it:

The safety pilot should only log that time during which the flying pilot was flying under simulated instrument conditions. I would NOT log taxi time, initial climbout (before the flying pilot put the hood on), final descent to landing (after the F.P. takes the hood off) or time spent in actual as a safety pilot. If you do encounter actual, the flying pilot should take the hood off and log that time as actual while the safety pilot should stop logging time.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Just curious as to what others might do....

Say that you have 2 pilots doing instrument approaches and being safety pilot for each other, and both are going to log the flight as PIC... would you log the whole flight, or take off time for being on the ground (since you can't really be SP on the ground anyway) or flying thru clouds?

I'm assuming that in your scenario the two pilots have decided that the pilot who was not under the hood would always be acting as pilot in command. A friend and I do this when we go up for practice.

The safety pilot's permission to log anything is based on the safety pilot being a required crewmember under 91.109(b). When the flying pilot is not under the hood, there is no safety pilot requirement and nothing to log.

So, assuming that the pilot who is doing the taxi and takeoff and landing has his eyes uncovered during those periods, there is no basis for the safety pilot to log anything, let alone PIC.

The through the cloud issue is a bit different. A safety pilot is required when instrument conditions are "simulated". That means "when the pilot's vision outside of the aircraft is intentionally restricted, such as by a hood or goggles." So, one can be in simulated instrument conditions while also being in actual conditions. There's nothing in 91.109(b) that says that the rule is limited to VMC. And, keeping in mind that pilots must see and avoid whenever they can, and actual often involves going in and out of broken or scattered layers, there's every reason to require a safety pilot when the flying pilot covers her eyes, even in IMC.

So, unless we're talking about extended periods of flight is solid clouds, I wouldn't worry about the stop watch.

 

[88_MALIBU]

Jedi
My friend and I do the same as you, but only one logs PIC, and only one logs the approach. You cant log landings obviously unless you land under the hood...That I would like to watch.
Its a legal way to build total time without having a CFI.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

I understand that I shouldn't log the approaches and landings, but should I write them down in the comments? I won't count them torwards currency because I didn't actually fly them.

 

[pilotman2105]

I understand that I shouldn't log the approaches and landings, but should I write them down in the comments? I won't count them torwards currency because I didn't actually fly them.

If you're not counting them as currency, then you do not have to log them. It would probably be more confusing if you do log them, 'cause then you may look back and wonder why did not "count" the approaches.

In general regarding remarks, write what is necessary and what is prudent, but do not write a paragraph about the flight you went on. The less of a paper trail you leave, the less trouble you are likely to get in, provided you DO include the stuff that is required.

 

[flytheblue]

I understand how the safety pilot should log the time...I was just asking the question out of curiousity because I know some people who log ALL the time as PIC (safety pilot) no matter if they are on the ground or going thru the clouds. Obviously this isn't the correct way to do it, but then again it's between the two of them how they want to log it...
Sometimes it's easier to log the flight as dual given if one of the pilots is a CFI.

 

[nosehair]

In the Clouds

Well, If you're in the clouds, and if you're in controlled airspace, then you must, or should be, on an instrument flight plan. If the safety pilot has an instrument rating and is current and can act as PIC, then he remains PIC as long as the situation requires a safety pilot by the fact that the flying pilot stays under the hood because you are in-and-out of the clouds. If the airplane stays in the clouds and the decision is made to remove the hood because you are "solid and going to stay that way", then you no longer need a safety pilot and safety pilot should stop logging, even though he is still the acting PIC by virture of being listed as the PIC on the instrument flight plan, but he would not be required to be there by regulation as is the case when acting as safety pilot in VMC conditions. The key is in the personal decision as to when and if a safety pilot is needed.